Monzanator

Cricket got a boost the rugby team lost the WC final

Polish awards will be announced on January 4th. Stoch & R. Lewandowski are basically locked into Top 3 IMO.

I'd say Vlhova is slightly better looking than Sagan as well

Ah yes, the nu-metal - post-grunge craze of the early 00s. Just about the last time MTV still played music and the world hasn't heard about the spotify crap yet. That didn't age well though - bands like Nickelback or Creed are completely dismissed as irrelevant these days.

At least Creed had the poor man's Pearl Jam rip-off vibe to them

And this is 20 years old now. I feel a little old

6 minutes ago, Vojthas said:

You know best the believes of any party doesn't mean a lot in the result of elections. This is mostly just the voting for the party, whose PR works better on me, you, him/her etc.

Yeah, but we have the same people running each party for a while. Schetyna is more occupied with keeping his party leadership after he was Tusk's biggest enemy for a long time. There is nobody new in our poitics, well, maybe Zandberg but he's too radical to ever win power. L&J vs CP battle goes on for the last 15 years and people quite frankly don't care about the PR IMO.

9 minutes ago, Vojthas said:

Yes, far-right socialists...

Welcome to Polish politics.

You know best the two biggest political enemies in Poland were on the same side of the fence pre-1989. What do you expect? Outright left-wing sociallism isn't winning anything here anymore. We've had that for 40+ years and it's over. They've got 10-15% of the market and that is it. They try to play the progressive game but it doesn't move the needle in Poland whatsoever.

When two centre-right-wing parties have to draw a line, Law & Justice goes into the central-controlled sociallist ideas and Civic Platform tries to appease the riches & plays the ideallistic game (which they don't believe in anyway).

15 minutes ago, monte88 said:

 

13 medals and all male. Great achieving. who would care about equality? Yey, Iran

Who cares about equality in sports?   Let me know when we have 2 Asians, 2 Latinas, 2 Whites and 2 Blacks in the 100m dash final

If you have a smartphone (because cell phones are sooo old school) and a social media account you can be tracked down in like 20 seconds anywhere in the world. The rise of technology has made the whole security thing so irrelevant I bet even the most liberal hard-liners don't believe it's a conspiracy theory anymore.

9 minutes ago, heywoodu said:

 

Ah, a unique trait specific to....no country at all  

5 minutes ago, Olympian1010 said:

Very unique. We’re just giving away money in the US (at least according to conservatives who generally make more than 100,000 a year)

You have to remember every company was state-owned until 1989 in Poland. Then privatisation came flying in and majority of these companies were sold for pennies and quickly folded on the open market which left hundreds of thousands people unemployed. Law & Justice speaks to those people who simply didn't get rich in the 90s and feel like only a small ammount of "elitists" made money on the privatisation in the 90s. They're not far off in their assumption, the rich always only get richer after all. Civic Platform is the party of businessmen, lawyers and doctors etc. The current head of opposition's biggest party Civic Platform was a radio station owner & a manager of a basketball club in the 90s (the club was sponsored by the radio he owned). That's a loooong way removed from being a next-door-guy which majority of the Polish society is. You ain't gonna win a single election in Poland being anti-Church and radically liberal. The most popular left-wing post-1989 politician in Poland, the former President Kwasniewski never actually dwelled on the Church matters whatsoever, he always ignored it and scored easy bonus points from the society to the point he won the 2000 re-election in a 50%+ landslide. 

13 minutes ago, heywoodu said:

 

One doesn't need to care about it to not specifically oppose something normal.

Polish people mostly care about the size of their wallets. Law & Justice has finally realized it hence even the opposition has said they won't take away the social transfers even though they said "the country can't afford it" when they were in power. Funny how money makes the world go round?

13 hours ago, Vojthas said:

Just to be precisely - I'm very far from being nationalistic. I feel myself a patriot, kind of centrist or at least centre-leftist. And knowing our history, I'd say more  - JUST BECAUSE I KNOW our history the Polish nationalism is so hard for me to understand. The "funniest" thing is talking about Catholic Church as the one that was the place where Polish culture was saved while all popes during those 123 years of non-existence were calling for obeying the laws of occupiers. Also the not-anti-nazi pope Pius XII wouldn't have rather supported Poles against Hitler.

Polish nationalism is also antisemitic - which is as surprising as Poles were on a similar way of being exterminated as Jews by Nazi Germany. Of course, there were Poles that collaborated with Hitler, as well as Frenchmen (Vichy), Brits (HRH The Duke of Windsor)...

And what's more important - Poland isn't that nationalistic as @Monzanator shows - the only truly nationalistic party would never have got into the Parliament without the coalition with other right-wingers - either Korwin-Mikke (you know, the sleepy old daddy from the EU Parliament) or Kukiz (rebelious, riotic rockman). The other "right-wing" has such a conservatinve, religious standards that it has two widows of the same husband (only one married in the church), the niece of the party's leader has three children, each with another man, not always the husband (there were also three of them I think), the chair of the Parliament's Family Commission has a child from cheating her husband... And is so anti-communist that the presecutor of the Martial law episode (1981-1983) became the judge of Constitutional Court last month. Not to mention such a Catholic mercy that their political opponents are called "communists", "thiefs", "worse sort of Poles", "treacherous muzzles" or "knaves"...

About the economy - the social programs, which are only to buy people's votes, because the country itself is not prepared for such a huge costs like 500 PLN monthly for every child, are so socialistic as they probably weren't even during the communism years.

No, @Olympian1010, I highly doubt you'll understand this nation. Quite a big part of it (about half) doesn't understand it either.

Polish Catholicism has lapsed a lot but it doesn't mean these lapsed Catholics support same-sex marriage and other liberal agendas. That's the big difference between some of the Western countries and Olympian's theory. Just because someone doesn't attend the mass it doesn't mean he/she supports LGBT rights! Polish people quite frankly do  not care about this. We as a nation aren't as ideallistic as those liberals wants us to be.

Far-right is a huge minority in Poland, Korwin-Mikke is a joke and everyone knows that. However Law & Justice appears to be strictly far-right by Western standards, in fact it's the post-1989 right-wingers who are trapped in the never-ending conflict first started by Lech Walesa (against then PM Mazowiecki). And guess what, most of the Polish society doesn't give a damn about constitution, the courts, the priests and all that jazz. That's the biggest trick, we simply do not care and that's why the liberal minds don't understand how to wrestle back the power from Law & Justice I don't attend church for several years now but I'll never support the left-wing sociallist parties. Try to figure that out!

10 minutes ago, Olympian1010 said:

Yeah I’ve read quite a bit about Prussian, English, and Soviet wars against culture. Many countries like Kazakhstan, Estonia, and Armenia meet similar fates to Poland. It really is sad. I will never truly understand what that feels like (at least hopefully), but I can try to imagine and sympathize with people who do. I will say that talking with you and @Vojthas has changed quite a few or my more negative views about Poland. 

Well, it will take at least 50-60 years before Poland even resembles the liberal Western countries. The entire generation who still remembers - even vaguely - the communist occupation will have to die first (including myself). However with Russia still doing their best Empire impression with the likes of Putin in charge that fear you find so repulsive in conservative politics will never go away IMO. Hell, UK and USA are afraid of the Russian influence too but they have the English channel and Atlantic Ocean to cover their ass. If Russia ever decides to drop the hammer guess which country will be the first to fall? Of course Poland. Russia has nuclear weapons stationed in the Kaliningrad enclave and everyone and their mother knows it   Even the left-wing Guardian:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/18/kaliningrad-nuclear-bunker-russia-satellite-photos-report

3 minutes ago, Olympian1010 said:

No I cannot.

 

It sure was fun well it lasted though 

 

I get it. I don’t like it, but I totally get it. I just think there’s a difference between “Yeah were Polish, we are proud to be Polish, everything is cool when your Polish, let’s all get laid”, and “We’re Polish and fuck anyone who isn’t, white Poles are superior, long live white Poland”. 
 

My Spanish (Español) would be much, much better in that case . I don’t actually think conservatism is all bad, the same way I don’t think democratic socialism is all good. I think they’re positive things gained from conservatism. However, I think conservatism can easily lead people to make decisions not based in reason, and against the general welfare (as can socialism, but I see it more in conservatism).

Nothing funny here. Polish was strictly forbidden in schools, offices and in public overall. Bismarck wanted to exterminate Poles the same way Hitler did some 40 years later. Private lands were confiscated, in the Russian zone you could be shipped to Siberia into the coal mines for singing national anthem among other things. Imagine some Mexican offical sending you to Yukon mines (and you're getting jailed straight away) for waving the US flag and then we can have jokes about nationalism being a bad thing . You will NEVER  understand why Poland isn't so happy to follow the German or Russian world order after all those years of oppression

10 minutes ago, Olympian1010 said:

Well I haven’t done the first too, and don’t plan too. The third didn’t occupy much of time, and to be honest that relationship wasn’t healthy. The only other girl I wanted to be with (since 2nd grade, who I still have feelings for to this day) dates pretty much every guy besides me. My generation is woke, what can I say. It’s also worth pointing out that I hung out with mostly “nerds”, and a fewer of the non-jock athletes. 
 

 

Most social science “peeps” are liberal. I think the subject matter is more suited to people that are open minded. However, there are plenty of conservatives in social science too. You’ll also find that more university graduates tend to identify as liberal rather than conservative. Conservatism is politics of fear and nationalism, and I think an education can be preventive towards those feelings. I also want to be perfectly clear, people experiences generally shaped their political affiliation more than anything else. What I’m saying is just stereotypes, and I am by no means trying to say that one side is right or wrong. I’m just offering an explanation for why social science majors tend to be more liberal.

 

I respect your opinion, and we actually seem to have some agreements here. I would add that their are people in my generation who do know how to have genuine communication and debate. On this forum, I’m not a good example of that because I don’t have to worry about posting some of my more “extreme” viewpoints, since there isn’t really any actual consequences for that. I also do a poor job of being a good debater since I seem to be the only vocal liberal around here (maybe besides @Agger or @ofan, but I tend to debate/argue much more than they do).

Can't blame Poland for being conservative after 123 years of Russian/Austrian/German occupation - a mere 20 year break - and 40 more years of Russian communist occupation. You will never understand that and it's the main reason why Poland isn't as liberal as some of the Western countries to say the very least. We've had enough of foreign influence in our history to be so nationalistic right now. And yeah, this is OUR experience as a nation. Imagine USA being under Mexican rule for 120 years with English being forbidden as a language and then we can talk about whether conservatism is such a bad choice  

2 minutes ago, Agger said:

 

And I don't necessarily disagree, but @Maxim Fastovsky is making parallels between democratic socialism and fascism. That's where it gets too much!

It's obvious he will defend the most-Israel friendly President USA has had in the last 50 years   It's a no-contest here.

7 minutes ago, Agger said:

 

If you don't know the difference, you should go back to school

 

From one of Sanders' dream countries (and no, I'm not selected by the government to write such things )

I've said this before, democratic sociallism works well in Nordic countries - small population and huge natural resources you can cash in. If USA population was 5.5 million like Denmark then Sanders would have a genuine shot at making it happen. However it's NEVER going to happen in a country with population of 300m+

35 minutes ago, Olympian1010 said:

The whole water/wet thing was a big debate in my generation in high school. My response was meant to be more of a light hearted jab. 
 

Also, to be fair. You always seem to forget you’re talking to someone who’s majoring in communications studies, with a potential minor in psychology, and with avid interests in human philosophy and nature, geography, and political theory.

I'm like twice as old as you and "my generation" in high school NEVER talked politics. We were more busy with cigs, drinks & chicks

My sister majored in psychology and runs her own private practice now and guess what, she's gone all left-wing ever since her uni days. You're not inventing the wheel here, buddy. Even in such a racist country as Poland (by your own account) psychologists are left-wing maniacs

And despite all of all, I'm OUT on the "water isn't wet" debate. Maybe it's worth the squeeze in the psychology world and everyone with a degree can think I'm just a complete moron, but it's a total waste of my time. Again, this is 21st century, people don't communicate anymore, they're only trying to sell their own vision and will never accept that they're wrong and someone else might actually be right. That's what I think of "your generation". You saying "water isn't actually wet" only confirms it. I'm OUT.

27 minutes ago, Olympian1010 said:

By that comparison sure, but Trump has done way worse in my opinion.

 

Technically we didn’t elect Trump to office by a margin of 3.5 million votes. 
 

Also, water both is and isn’t wet. Humans created the word wet to both describe when water has touched an object, and to describe the feeling of having water in contact with skin. However, “wet” is more a sensation felt by our nerves. Other animals could feel “wet” in different ways, or not feel “wet” at all; meaning that water is both wet and not wet.

And your response is the perfect example why the entire politics is a waste of time Some people are going to even argue the water isn't wet just to win a debate. This is so 21st century when "my way is the only way".

Got better things to do than arguing what the word "wet" means. Over and out

57 minutes ago, Olympian1010 said:

People will remember Trump as a narcissistic asshole though, since he’s always been one. Believe, people still talk about Clinton all the time. Trump is definitely a monster, and I can point to actions that classify him as such.

Trump is nothing compared to the likes of Lyndon Johnson who send thousands of Americans to die in Vietnam during a useless war USA was never going to win

You elected a millionaire businessman to office, what did you expect from Trump? These kind of people are always following their own script. Every single member of the lucky sperm club is narcisstic. You expect to be appluaded for saying the water is wet?

1 hour ago, ofan said:

What a historic moment. Even though he will likely be acquitted in the senate, finally this serial criminal and despicable man is facing the consequences of a lifetime of breaking the law and putting himself before others. I only hope that Americans will be smart enough to remove this monster from office in November. 

 

No matter how you try and spin it, Trump's legacy will forever be tarnished as he becomes one of just 3 presidents to ever be impeached. A very fitting legacy.  

 

 

Trump is a businessman and has been his entire life. He's not a poitician and never was. To think of him as monster is ridiculous but I understand how bitter all the liberals are after he punked Hilary Clinton against all odds.

Besides, nobody gives a fuck about Bill Clinton and his oral sex anymore. So much for a fitting legacy. In 20 years time nobody will remember Trump's impeachment either

Clemens blew it hard, shouldn't have been into a deciding leg anyway and van de Pas won on his first match dart

11 hours ago, Maxim Fastovsky said:

 

USA definetly operating out of israel.  They might not have their own bases but have definite presence especially in the air force bases.  They even run dogfighting drills with the Israeli air force.  When I served in the air force I met ton of american soldiers.   

Of course the "military advisors" are always present  , USA officially operates only one radar station but they invested more money in Israel than anywhere else in the world over the last 50 years.

1 minute ago, Olympian1010 said:

I mean I get the whole Turkey is our ally thing (though Erdogan is clearly in bed with Putin at the moment), but at some point with have to our values first. It’s true that we have bases and nukes in Turkey, but it’s not worth in my opinion. The only way it’s worth, is if they give up Turkish Cyprus, and then I could at least feel like we did something useful in the area. I’d much rather prefer to support Cyprus and Greece personally (and then make good friends with the likes of UAE, Jordan, Lebanon) over Turkey. 

The military & strategic value of Turkey is much bigger than Greece & Cyprus. USA needs a foothold in the Middle East and operating US military bases out of Israel would be prelude to WWIII. Turkey as the secular Muslim country is perfect for the job especially after you lost the Iran alliance following the 1979 Islamic revolution.

Jordan might try to play the neutral party but I seriously doubt  "being friends with Lebanon" is possible as long as Hezbollah HQ is located there

34 minutes ago, Olympian1010 said:

Trump vetos our recognition of the Armenian Genocide . He didn’t want to offend Turkey ?. We should honestly just back Greece and Cyprus at this point. Not a huge fan of modern Turkey myself.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/trump-sides-with-turkey-blocks-congress-recognizing-armenian-genocide-2019-12

Turkey was the US ally during WWII and you have military bases build there since the 50s. How many US military bases are there across former Soviet Union countries like Armenia?

The last sitting US president who called this a genocide was Reagan, after that everyone was afraid to upset Turkey. Even Obama only spoke of the genocide during his term in Congress, once he got elected President, he backed right off and never used the word "genocide" again. Welcome to big time politics, pal

Just now, Olympian1010 said:

It’s already slated to host the opening ceremonies in 2028. LA wants to be the first city to have two stadium hosting the opening ceremonies at the same time.

What's the point of this anyway?   They could alternate opening & closing ceremonies between the two stadiums but the same one on both of them? Kroenke's ego must be frickin' hilarious (there's a vague chance he won't live that far though ).

24 minutes ago, Olympian1010 said:

Yeah The Forum still hosts concerts rather regularly. There’s also big Venues of that caliber in Ontario, Anaheim, Irvine, Long Beach (The Pyramid ), and UCLA. We also have the Stub Hub Center where the Galaxy play, and the new stadium where LAFC play. There’s also the USC Arena that will host badminton in 2028. 

The new stadium in Inglewood will probably be hosting more than just Rams/Chargers games in the future? Unless Kroenke tells everyone to bugger off or demands too much leasing money