Swimming at the Aquatics WA World Championships 2023 Road to Paris 2024

[OlympicsFan 783]

2 hours ago, Vektor said:

I think we haven't really had a true top tier talent fade out. I mean, the swimmers you mentioned never appeared to be as promising as the likes of Milák, Hosszú, Gyurta. We might have a shitty talent management among the middle-tier swimmers, but I feel like Dávid Verrasztó is the only Hungarian swimmer who never reached his full potential in terms of Olympic medals. Gyurta, Hosszú and Milák were Olympic champion level talents and they all got their gold medals. Kapás and Kenderesi were Olympic medal level talents and they won their bronze medal. 

 

Right now we only got Kós who appear to be talented enough to be included among those names. If he won't win an Olympic medal in Paris or LA, I will be slightly disappointed. There's also Késely, who should have become the next Boglárka Kapás, that's an Olympic medal chance thrown out of the window, unless she turns her career around like Gyurta (post-Beijing) and Hosszú (post-London) did. I don't expect much from the rest (with maybe the exception of Padar? I guess we will see in the next few years if she can improve). 

I think you have an interesting definition of "top talent". Szilagyi won gold at the 2014 youth olympics as a 17 year old with 2:06.5, which was a junior world record if i remember correctly. You know who finished 1.5 seconds behind her in silver position? Zhang Yufei ...

Mihalyvari-Farkas also won gold at the 2022 european championships in the 400 IM as an 18 year old. Kesely won 2 silver medals and a bronze at the 2018 european championships as a 16 year old. Gabor Zombori won gold at the 2019 junior world championships in the 400 free as a 16 year old with a time of 3:46.0.

Not sure what Hosszu did as a junior that was (much) more impressive?

[Vektor 3,195]

57 minutes ago, OlympicsFan said:

I think you have an interesting definition of "top talent". Szilagyi won gold at the 2014 youth olympics as a 17 year old with 2:06.5, which was a junior world record if i remember correctly. You know who finished 1.5 seconds behind her in silver position? Zhang Yufei ...

Mihalyvari-Farkas also won gold at the 2022 european championships in the 400 IM as an 18 year old. Kesely won 2 silver medals and a bronze at the 2018 european championships as a 16 year old. Gabor Zombori won gold at the 2019 junior world championships in the 400 free as a 16 year old with a time of 3:46.0.

Not sure what Hosszu did as a junior that was (much) more impressive?

Out of these I only expected significantly more from Késely and maybe Zombori. Kesély seemed like one of those very level-headed, determined athletes who will produce great senior results, I didn't expect to see her recent struggles at all. 

 

The jury is still out on Mihályvári, I am not sure where that career is going, maybe she doesn't have what it takes to become competitive on the senior level at the Worlds and Olympics. Just like how Szilágyi wasn't up it, which I saw coming from a mile away, she always gave the impression of being a mess as a person, she never had the mentality or the supportive background of an Olympic medalist/champion. 

 

Hungarian swimming has a very unwelcoming atmosphere around it. It's not as bad as American women's gymnastics, but you get the sense that if someone doesn't have the deep inner drive to achieve greatness, they can quickly find themselves in a bad place. Like how even Milák did despite all the success. They are burning out athletes, more so than in any other sport in Hungary and that will result in "causalities". But if someone doesn't like the Hungarian way, they can always train elsewhere, just like Hosszú or Kós did. And at the very least Hungarian swimming is producing results (for now), so it does seem like the system works, it's just not for everyone. Hungarian women's handball for example has a much, MUCH lower rate of turning youth/junior success into senior world class talent. Hungarian swimming is still a long way from to be accused of having bad talent management, it won't happen until we flop in the next few Worlds and in Paris, but Milák can always "save the day" IF he comes back. 

[OlympicsFan 783]

54 minutes ago, Vektor said:

Out of these I only expected significantly more from Késely and maybe Zombori. Kesély seemed like one of those very level-headed, determined athletes who will produce great senior results, I didn't expect to see her recent struggles at all. 

 

The jury is still out on Mihályvári, I am not sure where that career is going, maybe she doesn't have what it takes to become competitive on the senior level at the Worlds and Olympics. Just like how Szilágyi wasn't up it, which I saw coming from a mile away, she always gave the impression of being a mess as a person, she never had the mentality or the supportive background of an Olympic medalist/champion. 

 

Hungarian swimming has a very unwelcoming atmosphere around it. It's not as bad as American women's gymnastics, but you get the sense that if someone doesn't have the deep inner drive to achieve greatness, they can quickly find themselves in a bad place. Like how even Milák did despite all the success. They are burning out athletes, more so than in any other sport in Hungary and that will result in "causalities". But if someone doesn't like the Hungarian way, they can always train elsewhere, just like Hosszú or Kós did. And at the very least Hungarian swimming is producing results (for now), so it does seem like the system works, it's just not for everyone. Hungarian women's handball for example has a much, MUCH lower rate of turning youth/junior success into senior world class talent. Hungarian swimming is still a long way from to be accused of having bad talent management, it won't happen until we flop in the next few Worlds and in Paris, but Milák can always "save the day" IF he comes back. 

I don't think that i ever said the Hungary has a bad "conversion rate". I don't think that many other countries are doing a better job. I just didn't agree with your take that basically none of your top talents flop. What you did is basically define "top talent" as talents that became successful at senior level and of course with a definition like that no top talent ever flops. If they don't do anything at senior level, you can just say that they weren't top talents. Mihalyvari-Farkas (and Kesely) could still do good things at senior level. Someone like Steenbergen was an amazing talent before disappearing for 3 or 4 years just to come back stronger than before out of nowhere. I also think that Szilagyi is a special case and you can't blame her, considering all the "trouble" she had with her father. Personally i don't like it when someone who tries to improve things (with positive criticism) just gets told that he/she can go elsewhere if he/she doesn't like the status quo. With an approach like that you stop yourself from improving. I think the hungarian federation should also ask themselves if they can (still) allow to lose some of their best athletes relatively early. Gyurta was pretty much cooked at 25 and we will see what happens with Milak. With a bit less pressure/more cooperation they might actually be able to "get more medals out of their athletes". In addition to that it might not be a good sign when two of your best athletes (Hosszu and Kos) feel the need to "flee" to another country ... (Germany has the same problem with athletes like Artem Selin, Rafael Miroslaw or Anna Elendt)

Edited July 14, 2023 by OlympicsFan

[Vektor 3,195]

For some reason I couldn't find an official list of Hungarian swimmers per event, so I had to make one for myself. We got 9 athletes who already have at least one OQT (+1 who's missing, Milák), the bold font indicates the already obtained OQTs. Hopefully there will be a few more OQTs here, Kapás for example should finally qualify to Paris.

 

Szebasztián Szabó - 50 Free, 100 Free, 50 Fly

Nándor Németh - 100 Free, 200 Free

Richárd Márton - 200 Free, 100 Fly, 200 Fly

Kristóf Rasovszky - 400 Free, 800 Free, 1500 Free

Dávid Bethlehem - 800 Free, 1500 Free

Áron Székely - 50 Back

Benedek Kovács - 100 Back, 200 Back

Hubert Kós - 100 Back, 200 Back, 100 Fly, 200 Medley

Ádám Telegdy - 200 Medley, 400 Medley

Balázs Holló - 400 Medley

 

Petra Senánszky - 50 Free, 100 Free

Nikolett Pádár - 200 Free

Ajna Késely - 200 Free, 400 Free, 800 Free

Bettina Fábián - 400 Free, 800 Free

Viktória Mihályvári-Farkas - 1500 Free, 400 Medley

Nora Flück - 1500 Free

Lora Fanni Komoroczy - 50 Back

Dóra Molnár - 100 Back

Eszter Szabó-Feltóthy - 200 Back 

Katalin Burián - 200 Back

Zsuzsanna Jakabos - 100 Fly, 200 Fly, 400 Medley

Boglárka Kapás - 200 Fly

Dalma Sebestyén - 200 Medley

 

Yeah, our women's team with only two Paris qualifications so far... Hopefully we will look better after these Worlds. 

[OlympicsFan 783]

1 hour ago, Vektor said:

For some reason I couldn't find an official list of Hungarian swimmers per event, so I had to make one for myself. We got 9 athletes who already have at least one OQT (+1 who's missing, Milák), the bold font indicates the already obtained OQTs. Hopefully there will be a few more OQTs here, Kapás for example should finally qualify to Paris.

 

Szebasztián Szabó - 50 Free, 100 Free, 50 Fly

Nándor Németh - 100 Free, 200 Free

Richárd Márton - 200 Free, 100 Fly, 200 Fly

Kristóf Rasovszky - 400 Free, 800 Free, 1500 Free

Dávid Bethlehem - 800 Free, 1500 Free

Áron Székely - 50 Back

Benedek Kovács - 100 Back, 200 Back

Hubert Kós - 100 Back, 200 Back, 100 Fly, 200 Medley

Ádám Telegdy - 200 Medley, 400 Medley

Balázs Holló - 400 Medley

 

Petra Senánszky - 50 Free, 100 Free

Nikolett Pádár - 200 Free

Ajna Késely - 200 Free, 400 Free, 800 Free

Bettina Fábián - 400 Free, 800 Free

Viktória Mihályvári-Farkas - 1500 Free, 400 Medley

Nora Flück - 1500 Free

Lora Fanni Komoroczy - 50 Back

Dóra Molnár - 100 Back

Eszter Szabó-Feltóthy - 200 Back 

Katalin Burián - 200 Back

Zsuzsanna Jakabos - 100 Fly, 200 Fly, 400 Medley

Boglárka Kapás - 200 Fly

Dalma Sebestyén - 200 Medley

 

Yeah, our women's team with only two Paris qualifications so far... Hopefully we will look better after these Worlds. 

I think the most likey candidates are Nemeth (100 free), Telegdy (200 back), Zombori (400 IM), Padar (200/400 free), Fabian (1500 free), Mihalyvari-Farkas (400 IM/1500 free), Burian (200 back), Molnar (200 back), Kapas (200 fly, maybe 400/800 free), Sebestyen (200 IM), Jackl (400 IM) and maybe Magda (100 free). In the end you should have at least 16 athletes with an OQT.

[Topicmaster1010 2,471]

Official entry lists are out

[Vissoko19 10]

kako ,nigdje nema Lane Pudar i drugih iz BIH

[Wumo 2,807]

17 minutes ago, Vissoko19 said:

kako ,nigdje nema Lane Pudar i drugih iz BIH

Lana Pudar je na prijavnoj listi za 100m leptir i 200m leptir.

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

Edited July 20, 2023 by Wumo

[Topicmaster1010 2,471]

We now have start lists for all the heats!!!

 

You can find them here

 

Just one more day guys!So excited

[Topicmaster1010 2,471]

Some big scratches to report for the first prelims session:

 

Both  Daniel Wiffen and  Danas Rapsys have scratched the men's 400m freestyle while  Simona Quadarella has scratched the women's 400m freestyle