[OFF TOPIC] Politics Thread

[Vic Liu 1,592]

30 minutes ago, OlympicsFan said:

What I find interesting is China‘s global strategy. How many wars did the US start to gain influence? China doesn’t need that, they „gained control“ over Africa without having to lead any wars

 

The strategy is very easy. Lend them money with no interest or just give money for free without political requirements ( human right, corruption inspection blah blah). Africa is very eager to get money to build road and bridge etc, while western world think they are unqualified to get them and incapable to pay back. And then China lend the money and claiming I will not monitor how you use it. I see none of the African country could resist it.

[Monzanator 3,595]

59 minutes ago, OlympicsFan said:

What I find interesting is China‘s global strategy. How many wars did the US start to gain influence? China doesn’t need that, they „gained control“ over Africa without having to lead any wars.

 

European colonization of Africa ended for good in the 60s so China waltzed into a perfect situation. Nobody's gonna listen to Europe when it comes to solving African issues anymore given the colonial past

[Olympian1010 7,477]

2 hours ago, OlympicsFan said:

What I find interesting is China‘s global strategy. How many wars did the US start to gain influence? China doesn’t need that, they „gained control“ over Africa without having to lead any wars.

I just a debate on this for my final grade in debate class. I was pro “the U.S. should adopt the Chinese foreign aid and development strategy.”

[Olympian1010 7,477]

1 hour ago, Monzanator said:

 

European colonization of Africa ended for good in the 60s so China waltzed into a perfect situation. Nobody's gonna listen to Europe when it comes to solving African issues anymore given the colonial past

The research I did for me debate suggests that’s not entirely true. While some countries left on horrible (cough*Algeria*cough) with their colonizers, many still maintained a relationship with them afterwards. @Vic Liu is absolutely right about China’s strategy in the region. I suggested the U.S. adopt that strategy to win over West Africa in a recent debate I had. The reason America is so unpopular in Africa is that we come in, shoot a bunch of poor African kids, and then leave without helping restart the economy or set up a democratic system.

[Monzanator 3,595]

7 minutes ago, Olympian1010 said:

The research I did for me debate suggests that’s not entirely true. While some countries left on horrible (cough*Algeria*cough) with their colonizers, many still maintained a relationship with them afterwards. @Vic Liu is absolutely right about China’s strategy in the region. I suggested the U.S. adopt that strategy to win over West Africa in a recent debate I had. The reason America is so unpopular in Africa is that we come in, shoot a bunch of poor African kids, and then leave without helping restart the economy or set up a democratic system.

 

Yeah, Anthony Eden wanted to assassinate Nasser, I wonder much love Egypt has for Great Britain these days?   This is a dead duck, Americans have guilty consciousness over slavery and racial segregation, good luck in your country trying to show some muscle in Africa of all continents. Progressive forces which you supposedly represent would probably burn this idea alive. USA has failed in the Far & Middle East (aside from the creation of Israel) and had some flops in Latin America. They're not gonna do anything in Africa methinks.

 

 

[Vic Liu 1,592]

9 minutes ago, Olympian1010 said:

The research I did for me debate suggests that’s not entirely true. While some countries left on horrible (cough*Algeria*cough) with their colonizers, many still maintained a relationship with them afterwards. @Vic Liu is absolutely right about China’s strategy in the region. I suggested the U.S. adopt that strategy to win over West Africa in a recent debate I had. The reason America is so unpopular in Africa is that we come in, shoot a bunch of poor African kids, and then leave without helping restart the economy or set up a democratic system.

 

This strategy is very difficult to adopt in democratic country like USA. First, the credibility rating of Africa is very low, the money you lending is very risky of debt default, the taxpayers and opposition party will jump out and yell it's a waste of money and betrayer of people. Second, western countries like playing as "God" and seeing the loan as "God's gift" and expecting receivers following lots of rules and making commitment like democracy reform etc. 

 

If Chinese government ask me to vote I would say no to lending money to Africa as I hurt very much as taxpayer, So I expect democratic country would definitely so no.

[Olympian1010 7,477]

43 minutes ago, Vic Liu said:

 

This strategy is very difficult to adopt in democratic country like USA. First, the credibility rating of Africa is very low, the money you lending is very risky of debt default, the taxpayers and opposition party will jump out and yell it's a waste of money and betrayer of people. Second, western countries like playing as "God" and seeing the loan as "God's gift" and expecting receivers following lots of rules and making commitment like democracy reform etc. 

 

If Chinese government ask me to vote I would say no to lending money to Africa as I hurt very much as taxpayer, So I expect democratic country would definitely so no.

My proposed plan in the debate was that we’d offer West Africa Humanitarian and Development aid in place of military support. Research suggests that would curb terrorism, and we’d have social experts there to make sure the aid is distributed as planned. The French military would provide protection in the early days, and stomp out any remaining terrorists ground after a while. Thus the U.S gains new allies, a sphere of influence in Africa, and the French don’t lose as troops as I think they will under their current strategy in the area. It cost more to finance war, and my plan just reallocated the funds from our African military budget, to our African aid budget. This means that in theory, it would not cost anymore to aid West Africa than it does now under the current strategy of propping up dictators and shooting poor African kids.

 

Now, I’ve maintained that in recent times the U.S. is where science, research, and reason go to die. Therefore absolutely agree this will most likely never happen, but it is the best solution available. 

[Monzanator 3,595]

32 minutes ago, Olympian1010 said:

My proposed plan in the debate was that we’d offer West Africa Humanitarian and Development aid in place of military support. Research suggests that would curb terrorism, and we’d have social experts there to make sure the aid is distributed as planned. The French military would provide protection in the early days, and stomp out any remaining terrorists ground after a while. Thus the U.S gains new allies, a sphere of influence in Africa, and the French don’t lose as troops as I think they will under their current strategy in the area. It cost more to finance war, and my plan just reallocated the funds from our African military budget, to our African aid budget. This means that in theory, it would not cost anymore to aid West Africa than it does now under the current strategy of propping up dictators and shooting poor African kids.

 

Now, I’ve maintained that in recent times the U.S. is where science, research, and reason go to die. Therefore absolutely agree this will most likely never happen, but it is the best solution available. 

 

I seriously doubt Africa wants humanitarian & development aid from USA. They want hard dollars which they can embezzle right away. USA trying to impose democracy - with the help of CIA contractors no doubt - is straight from Robert Ludlum line of work. You didn't solve any problems in Iraq and Afghanistan and you want to stir the African pot? For what? It's better to focus on helping Saudi Arabia and the oil rescources from the Persian Gulf.

[OlympicsFan 783]

3 hours ago, Vic Liu said:

 

The strategy is very easy. Lend them money with no interest or just give money for free without political requirements ( human right, corruption inspection blah blah). Africa is very eager to get money to build road and bridge etc, while western world think they are unqualified to get them and incapable to pay back. And then China lend the money and claiming I will not monitor how you use it. I see none of the African country could resist it.

I think that this isn’t true for all western countries. In 2017 the US paid 35 billion dollars of foreign aid and among the top 10 recipients were 7 African nations. GB paid 18 billion dollars in foreign aid and among the top 10 recipients there were 5 African countries. On the other hand Germany paid 25 billion dollars in foreign aid and among the 10 recipients there was only one African country (Morroco), while the top recipient was India with 1 billion dollars and China was 3rd with 700 million dollars. The EU paid more than 16 billion dollars in foreign aid and among the top 10 recipients were only 2 African countries (Morocco and Tunisia). Funnily enough the top recipient was Turkey with 2.6 billion dollars. I guess due to the colonial history some European countries are more hesitant to tell African countries what to do, China doesn’t have that Problem.

[OlympicsFan 783]

3 hours ago, Monzanator said:

 

European colonization of Africa ended for good in the 60s so China waltzed into a perfect situation. Nobody's gonna listen to Europe when it comes to solving African issues anymore given the colonial past

Without a doubt many African people think like that, but at the same time I think that there are many places where people would be more appreciative and I think in some cases European countries would have a better access thanks to the common language. I just hope that African countries don’t get the short end of the stick when dealing with China. Today a lot of African countries are still exploited by big companies from all over the world (for example look at what Exxon just recently did in Guyana), but it has to be mentioned that big western companies couldn’t exploit those countries if there wouldn’t be greedy local politicians who are willing to sell out their own country for their personal benefit.