Doping Cases and Bans 2019 Thread

[phelps 6,864]

41 minutes ago, Gianlu33 said:

Apparently now is almost sure, Alex Schwazer's antidoping test was tampered in Losanna and Alex was clean.

That's a big shame, i'm not a fan of Alex but this is an unprecedented severity

 

it was know from the beginning...and there's no high official from IAAF, WADA and even CAS who's not guilty of that manipulation...

 

that's why I'm sure that nothing is trustable when it comes to the anti-doping system...

 

however, if he has any kind of dignity left, Sir Seb Coe (and the entire IAAF Board) now should resign immediately (of course also all the WADA officials and Italian federation officials should do it, but from them I don't expect even some kind of respect for the evidence...they will always say they are right)...

[heywoodu 13,559]

1 hour ago, Gianlu33 said:

Apparently now is almost sure, Alex Schwazer's antidoping test was tampered in Losanna and Alex was clean.

Source?

[heywoodu 13,559]

Also, what did some Italian race walker apparently do to supposedly piss off officials in every governing body enough to (again, supposedly!) tamper with his samples?

[Gianlu33 3,574]

Just now, heywoodu said:

Source?

Practically all Italian newspapers, I read in on an italian sport newspaper (maybe Tuttosport or Il Corriere, i'm not sure) 

 

Just now, heywoodu said:

Also, what did some Italian race walker apparently do to supposedly piss off officials in every governing body enough to (again, supposedly!) tamper with his samples?

If we want do a conspiracy, probably their do it for attack his coach, Sandro Donati, a simbol of the italian anti-doping 

[heywoodu 13,559]

So everyone, from IAAF to WADA to CAS, wants to attack one Sandro Donati (according to this conspiracy theory)? What if 'proof' of him being messed with is actually a conspiracy to make IAAF, WADA and CAS look bad?

[OlympicsFan 783]

On 03/09/2019 at 08:07, Olympian1010 said:

Now I have to admit that I don’t understand why people have turned their attention to Bolt and gone after him. There is no evidence to suggest he participated in a doping scheme or anything of the sort. Going after Briana and Coleman I get but Bolt I don’t understand. With the amount of retesting on samples that has been done on the last few Olympics there is there is little chance he was doping.

1) Maybe because (pretty much) everyone else on the top 10 all-time list was caught? I think many people consider it unlikely that the fastest one on that list is the only clean one.

2) As far as i understand it, anyone who is remotely intelligent will dope during a heavy training period (and not shortly before a competition) and will therefore have nothing in his/her system during major competitions. After all they know that there will be retests.

[OlympicsFan 783]

On 03/09/2019 at 11:38, phelps said:

 

well, all the Salazar gang up in Oregon has always been more than suspicious...he's well known to play dirty with rules and products he gives to his pupils (yesterday they were Farah and the US middle distance specialists who used to be almost as good as Farah himself and the Africans, nowadays is the Hassan/Klosterhalfen duo, who were just good but now they're a lap ahead of people like Dibaba and the other flying Ethiopians, already suspect enough by themselves)...

 

and the Jamaican wonders (Bolt included) have always been related to coach Seagrave (who was the mastermind behind the Ben Johnson's "project")...

 

so, those are the "facts", the "dangerous relationships" in the small world of top athletics...

 

then, everybody can think what they want...we're still in a free world (most of us, at least)...

Sorry, but ...

1) Why not speak about the italian coaches/managers who are the ones that made Kenya (and currently Uganada) a "superpower"? Ever heard of Federico Rosa or Renato Canova? Did you look into the connection between Canova and Salpeter (one of the athletes with the most ridiculous progression over the past couple of years)?

2) If you really think that Hassan and especially Klosterhalfen are a lap ahead of Dibaba and made a huge step forward under Salazar, then you don't know much about those athletes.

Just yesterday Klosterhalfen for example lost against Gidey, one of the "flying Ethiopians", while Hassan for example was only third in the London 5000 m Diamond League race behind two athletes from Kenya. Hassan hasn't won a gold medal at a global championships so far (as far as i know) and Klosterhalfen is far from a lock to do win a medal this year. Klosterhalfen already won a medal at the 2016 U20 world championships and in 2017 she was the youngest athlete ever (as far as i know) to do the triple of breaking 2:00 in the 800 m, 4:00 in the 1500 m and 15:00 in the 5000 m. Anyone who followed athletics already back then knew that she was a generational talent (espcially people in Germany knew that, because even back then many scientists were "shocked" to see how little lactate was accumulating in her muscles when she did endurance tests, the consensus back then was that they had never seen anything like that).

Since joing the NOP Klosterhalfen hasn't improved her 1500 m PB. She improved her 3000 m PB by 9 seconds and her 5000 m PB by 25 seconds, but we have to take into consideration that:

a) All her PB's were back from 2017 when she was still 20 years old and those improvements only look "insane" because she was injured last season, otherwise it is pretty safe to assume that she already would have been much faster than 8:29 and 14:51 last year (before joining the NOP).

b) When she set her 5000 m PB in 2017 it was with a massive negative split and even back then most people agreed that she could have gone around 14:40 with better pacing.

As far as i know Hassan also only improved her 1500 m PB by 0.5 seconds or so after joining the NOP and i wouldn't call that a massive improvement. I think what both of them have in common is that they shifted their focus towards longer distances/did more mileage and that led to big improvements in the 3k/5k, but their 1500 m PB's barely changed after joining the NOP.

 

Let me be clear: I wouldn't bet anything on Klosterhalfen/Hassan being clean, but if you think they are doped, then (at least in my opinion) you should assume that they were already doping before joining Salazar.

Do i think that there is doping going on in the NOP? I honestly don't know ... we hear a lot of stuff and i have no doubt that they use methods that are "semi-legal", but i am also not sure whether Nike would really risk having some of the high-profile athletes at the NOP being caught for doping (that would be really bad for their brand), of course this could either mean that they have "forbidden" doping or that they just make sure that nothing ever gets out. I think that if it is possible to become as fast as the kenyan/ethiopian athletes even without doping, then only if you invest insane amounts of money like the NOP does and i don't think anyone else is willing to do that, so if any of the top runners are clean, then in my opinion it has to be the guys/girls at the NOP. For me personally Muir or Debues-Stafford are much more suspicious, because they reached (almost) the same level as Hassan/Klosterhalfen without the same level of money that the NOP has and without being remotely as successful as Hassan/Klosterhalfen were at junior level.

Edited September 7, 2019 by OlympicsFan

[phelps 6,864]

39 minutes ago, OlympicsFan said:

Sorry, but ...

1) Why not speak about the italian coaches/managers who are the ones that made Kenya (and currently Uganada) a "superpower"? Ever heard of Federico Rosa or Renato Canova? Did you look into the connection between Canova and Salpeter (one of the athletes with the most ridiculous progression over the past couple of years)?

2) If you really think that Hassan and especially Klosterhalfen are a lap ahead of Dibaba and made a huge step forward under Salazar, then you don't know much about those athletes.

Just yesterday Klosterhalfen for example lost against Gidey, one of the "flying Ethiopians", while Hassan for example was only third in the London 5000 m Diamond League race behind two athletes from Kenya. Hassan hasn't won a gold medal at a global championships so far (as far as i know) and Klosterhalfen is far from a lock to do win a medal this year. Klosterhalfen already won a medal at the 2016 U20 world championships and in 2017 she was the youngest athlete ever (as far as i know) to do the triple of breaking 2:00 in the 800 m, 4:00 in the 1500 m and 15:00 in the 5000 m. Anyone who followed athletics already back then knew that she was a generational talent (espcially people in Germany knew that, because even back then many scientists were "shocked" to see how little lactate was accumulating in her muscles when she did endurance tests, the consensus back then was that they had never seen anything like that).

Since joing the NOP Klosterhalfen hasn't improved her 1500 m PB. She improved her 3000 m PB by 9 seconds and her 5000 m PB by 25 seconds, but we have to take into consideration that:

a) All her PB's were back from 2017 when she was still 20 years old and those improvements only look "insane" because she was injured last season, otherwise it is pretty safe to assume that she already would have been much faster than 8:29 and 14:51 last year (before joining the NOP).

b) When she set her 5000 m PB in 2017 it was with a massive negative split and even back then most people agreed that she could have gone around 14:40 with better pacing.

As far as i know Hassan also only improved her 1500 m PB by 0.5 seconds or so after joining the NOP and i wouldn't call that a massive improvement. I think what both of them have in common is that they shifted their focus towards longer distances/did more mileage and that led to big improvements in the 3k/5k, but their 1500 m PB's barely changed after joining the NOP.

 

Let me be clear: I wouldn't bet anything on Klosterhalfen/Hassan being clean, but if you think they are doped, then (at least in my opinion) you should assume that they were already doping before joining Salazar.

Do i think that there is doping going on in the NOP? I honestly don't know ... we hear a lot of stuff and i have no doubt that they use methods that are "semi-legal", but i am also not sure whether Nike would really risk having some of the high-profile athletes at the NOP being caught for doping (that would be really bad for their brand), of course this could either mean that they have "forbidden" doping or that they just make sure that nothing ever gets out. I think that if it is possible to become as fast as the kenyan/ethiopian athletes even without doping, then only if you invest insane amounts of money like the NOP does and i don't think anyone else is willing to do that, so if any of the top runners are clean, then in my opinion it has to be the guys/girls at the NOP. For me personally Muir or Debues-Stafford are much more suspicious, because they reached (almost) the same level as Hassan/Klosterhalfen without the same level of money that the NOP has and without being remotely as successful as Hassan/Klosterhalfen were at junior level.

 

1) sure...and I think the same of them as of Salazar and his group (and the Seagrave group for sprinters and so on...all the supposed gurus of any discipline has his/her dark side of the moon)...

 

about NOP...I'm pretty sure that Nike help them developing new generation doping and covering it up...they're as dirty as all the big multi-National groups are (in all kind of activities, not only in sports, of course...for instance, just watch the recent Fentanyl -and other medicines of that kind- scandal and the reactions that followed in the scientific community)...

[bestmen 2,564]

IAAF clears 11 Russian athletes to compete internationally in neutral status

[prso1000 540]

Obviously everybody is suspicious ( kind of I agree). Except Klosterhafen ( I disagree) and I hope they will catch her soon ??