Athletes with origins from other Countries

[hoversaBR 618]

3 hours ago, El Analyzer said:

Hey Guys, What's your opinion about naturalisation in sports? .. do you think it's good/ bad / fair / unfair... for the athletes and for supporters too?

 

for me I can categories them into 3 styles:

 

1- Athlete who lived in the new country long enough and get the citizenship similar to any other normal person utilising the them process and time frame to be granted the new citizenship

 

- Personally I see this one is fine, and the athlete is free to choose which country to represent (original or new)

 

2- Athlete who is seeking asylum or has been ejected from his homeland for any reason, then he had been offered a citizenship to play.

 

- it depends, if he is temporarily away from his homeland I am more in favour to retain his original citizenship, but if it's impossible to be back again, then it's fine

 

3- Athletes who have been paid to represent another country and leave their homeland

 

- I am totally against that and can't withstand a Bahraini called Winferd, Qatari called Savic, Belgian calle Paratishvilli or Turkish called Makhmadov ..etc

I don't know what to say about this. I understand the athlete's personal side, but this usually only benefits the richest countries and creates inequalities within the sport. The little talent a small country can produce is lost to a superpower.

 

Brazil doesn't have a culture of naturalization. Cases like Yoandy Leal's in volleyball are exceptions. Even our theoretical naturalizations in winter sports are conditional on these athletes having some connection to the country, such as being born here or having a Brazilian parent, which, according to our constitution, makes them Brazilian.

[phelps 8,279]

9 minutes ago, bestmen said:

you make exemple of muslim countries only , why not Denmark represented by the kenyan" Wilson kipketer" very different cultures ...atleast citizens of Bahrein  are tanned not far than kenyans 

once again, you've chosen the wrong example

 

Kipketer lived in Denmark for years before he could even ask for the Danish citizenship, he married a Danish woman and got through the entire process as any other foreigner extra-EU, waiting 7 years and more before his request was accepted and started representing Denmark in global events

 

if there's an example of fair decision to live in and represent a Country different from the one he was born, that's it

 

no purchase happened in this case, not at all

[phelps 8,279]

4 hours ago, El Analyzer said:

Hey Guys, What's your opinion about naturalisation in sports? .. do you think it's good/ bad / fair / unfair... for the athletes and for supporters too?

 

for me I can categories them into 3 styles:

 

1- Athlete who lived in the new country long enough and get the citizenship similar to any other normal person utilising the them process and time frame to be granted the new citizenship

 

- Personally I see this one is fine, and the athlete is free to choose which country to represent (original or new)

 

2- Athlete who is seeking asylum or has been ejected from his homeland for any reason, then he had been offered a citizenship to play.

 

- it depends, if he is temporarily away from his homeland I am more in favour to retain his original citizenship, but if it's impossible to be back again, then it's fine

 

3- Athletes who have been paid to represent another country and leave their homeland

 

- I am totally against that and can't withstand a Bahraini called Winferd, Qatari called Savic, Belgian calle Paratishvilli or Turkish called Makhmadov ..etc

my opinion is simple: we live in a globalized World where people travel around the Globe for fun, to find a job, to find better living conditions, to get back where his/her ancestors started the journey

 

we have to accept that, first...and this means also accepting people's decision to change Nation because of the economical advantage they get from this decison

 

we do it for "normal jobs", I don't see any reason to deny athletes the same chances

 

it might sound bad, but so goes the World right now

 

 

[hoversaBR 618]

17 minutes ago, phelps said:

once again, you've chosen the wrong example

 

Kipketer lived in Denmark for years before he could even ask for the Danish citizenship, he married a Danish woman and got through the entire process as any other foreigner extra-EU, waiting 7 years and more before his request was accepted and started representing Denmark in global events

 

if there's an example of fair decision to live in and represent a Country different from the one he was born, that's it

 

no purchase happened in this case, not at all

His example was bad, but I understand what he meant. Perhaps Turkey and Bahrain stand out for their purchasing, but is what other countries do fair? I remember our strong water polo team from Rio 2016. How many countries have naturalized Chinese athletes in badminton? In table tennis? Americans being exported in baseball, among many other cases.

I mean, perhaps these two countries do the most extreme, but we forget that other countries do the same thing. But only they are criticized.

[Grassmarket 4,028]

 has an odd exception.  Anyone from any Commonwealth country can join the Army & get a passport that way.  And, depending on military criteria, serving soldiers can also play semi-pro sports like......rugby.   So we get a lot of Pacific Islanders volunteering for the Army and ending up in the    rugby teams.

[Grassmarket 4,028]

4 minutes ago, hoversaBR said:

His example was bad, but I understand what he meant. Perhaps Turkey and Bahrain stand out for their purchasing, but is what other countries do fair? I remember our strong water polo team from Rio 2016. How many countries have naturalized Chinese athletes in badminton? In table tennis? Americans being exported in baseball, among many other cases.

I mean, perhaps these two countries do the most extreme, but we forget that other countries do the same thing. But only they are criticized.

That's true,  plenty countries have got whole teams of table tennis players - even the coach!

[George_D 1,473]

i am not in favor of naturalization. Since we have international competitions between countries i want to see each country's performance based on its own personell strength or/and culture/style so whats the point for example fro european teams in basketball to have american players?? tomorrow the sports federations will extend the number of naturalizations and we will have teams which will result actually as the same product. Unless IOC abolish country represantation and athletes particip[ate as individuals or we will have teams created indepedently from nations (for example Giannis will have his own team, Doncic his own etc)

Edited September 22 by George_D

[copravolley 498]

32 minutes ago, hoversaBR said:

I don't know what to say about this. I understand the athlete's personal side, but this usually only benefits the richest countries and creates inequalities within the sport. The little talent a small country can produce is lost to a superpower.

 

Brazil doesn't have a culture of naturalization. Cases like Yoandy Leal's in volleyball are exceptions. Even our theoretical naturalizations in winter sports are conditional on these athletes having some connection to the country, such as being born here or having a Brazilian parent, which, according to our constitution, makes them Brazilian.

Lucas Braathen in alpine skiing (his mother was from Brazil).

[bestmen 2,903]

1 hour ago, phelps said:

once again, you've chosen the wrong example

 

Kipketer lived in Denmark for years before he could even ask for the Danish citizenship, he married a Danish woman and got through the entire process as any other foreigner extra-EU, waiting 7 years and more before his request was accepted and started representing Denmark in global events

 

if there's an example of fair decision to live in and represent a Country different from the one he was born, that's it

 

no purchase happened in this case, not at all

NOT TRUE , you can't live in Denmark just like that like  you want, they will expulse you ...they planned everything since the beginning , they were looking for medals 

Spoiler

@intoronto 

 

Edited September 22 by bestmen

[heywoodu 16,000]

Like most people, I think it depends on the situation. No problems at all with examples like Sifan Hassan or Lonah Salpeter, or plenty of athletes who simply moved to another country for whatever reason (from fleeing home to a relationship). The problem with a lot of athletes who don't fall in that category but really are 'bought' is also often with their home country federations and such, driving them away basically (in some cases at least, especially Kenya is of course notorious for this).