[phelps 7,033]

1 hour ago, avlar said:

But they were excluded! Ukraine forced such big names as Sadulaev and Evloev to be excluded.

 

Russians will not boycott wrestling themselves, but our pressure "helped" to exclude a lot of them including the combar sports.

 

I would not hope in Chiamizo`s case for UWW fair decision. It can be done via the IOC only. And the process will proceed next weeks - after the FOQ in Turkey UWW will send the quotas to the IOC. And the campaign should go before the decision of the IOC is revealed. Otherwise it would be hrad to change it.

 

I do not see any reason why the Italian sports community has to give up. UWW ruled out that was a "mistake" bud did nothing to fix it. 

the problem is that here nobody is interested in wrestling, there are no important politicians rather than media ready to ride the wave of a protest against UWW

 

and our relationship with IOC at the moment is not as good as it was in the past: all the troubles and contrasts around the organization of the 2026 Winter Games won't make a favor to our cause right now 

[phelps 7,033]

2 minutes ago, copravolley said:

Yes, Russo has potential but she is young. However, such Liuzzi, I'm sorry, but she will never even be solid wrestler.

c'mon! she's already on another planet than Liuzzi

 

she did show that she can manage and play even with most of the top wrestlers in the world

 

Liuzzi is a joke, doesn't even have any idea of what she has to do on the mat...Today she came to this match only because of the draw

[phelps 7,033]

3 minutes ago, Fly_like_a_don said:

Don't think the 3rd one was intentional. Poor Akobia 

you mean the 5th or 6th  (the last one that was sanctioned, but there were others before)

 

I don't know why she did those mistakes...I mean, she was clearly stronger, she didn't need to play those dirty tricks (especially vs an Italian, when everybody knew that we're in some big debt with UWW)

Edited May 11 by phelps

[phelps 7,033]

4 minutes ago, intoronto said:

Is there a stream anywhere?

Bulgarian TV BNT 3 (with a BUL VPN, of course)

 

or somewhere on VK, I guess

 

also here, with Turkish VPN

 

https://www.trtspor.com.tr/canli-yayin-izle/trt-spor-yildiz/

Edited May 11 by phelps

[phelps 7,033]

this is a joke!

 

I mean, Hrushyna made multiple capital mistakes, but winning a quota like this is just a joke after all that happened with Chamizo...

 

however, I told you that Russo had at least the chance to play an even match with the girl from  

 

she defended well all the time and her resilience was rewarded by the dumb mistakes from Hrushyna

 

if only she could put some muscles on and find a true, great coach...

[phelps 7,033]

however, in the next future I should listen to some of my friends and follow padel and breakdance rather than any other sport that's going to be disappointing and frustrating as hell   

[phelps 7,033]

1 minute ago, copravolley said:

Two, if we can have good girls in judo, why are we so low in wrestling? German women know how to fight.

because judo is mainly about technical skills (and we have some great coaches that can help our athletes transitioning from the youth to the senior ranks)

 

wrestling is a totally different beast (just the weight management is not in the heart of our youngsters and their families, let out when it comes down to the proper preparation, the building of a good wrestler)

[phelps 7,033]

Just now, copravolley said:

Here only Chamizo could get QO. For our women, advancing to this stage is a great success.

a lucky draw, rather

 

however, don't underestimate Aurora Russo...she's talented, very talented (maybe still too unexperienced at this level, but the real problem is that we don't have any good coach that could help to develop her wrestling and improve up to becoming a consistent global medal candidate)

[phelps 7,033]

[phelps 7,033]

[phelps 7,033]

11 minutes ago, Fly_like_a_don said:

They can't cut a quota. It's unfair for other athletes. Why should wrestlers from other continent pay for a mistake in Europe?

as I wrote, I think they would make it a 17-man weight in Paris, but with the man in charge, the 1976 Fencing Olympic Champion himself, we can't just take it for granted...he's well capable to force the UWW to keep the number as in the original plan and this would only mean that they have to take 1 qualifying place away from the list...it's alway's the IOC last word that counts

[phelps 7,033]

3 hours ago, MHSN said:

this is getting interesting

https://uww.org/article/uww-sets-two-independent-panels-review-chamizo-bayramov-bout

 

 

if you ask me Chamizo's 300.000 dollars claim is a lie. I mean maybe someone in the arena really told him such a thing but if you accuse like this you have to give a name, who offered this ? just a random kid in Baku ?

I just can't believe they are willing to pay this much for a piece of crap like Bayramov just to win a quota. (which most probably won't be turned into a medal anyway)

Cuban wrestlers had a long history of accepting bribes. but Chamizo is not representing Cuba anymore and even Cubans never do it when it comes to the Olympics. 

 

it's very interesting they claim they are going to review that "challenge decision" are they going to throw Cicioglu under the buss ? but he made a big mistake, I'm not talking about the call, that wasn't a mistake, that was intentional cheating . but the mistake was doing it under the spotlight, against someone like Chamizo. that didn't worth it, CIcioglu exposed himself and maybe this time he is going to pay.

 

still it's hard for me to predict the outcome. but I won't be surprised if they somehow give a quota to Chamizo without taking Bayramov's

the most obvious outcome 

and then, a 17-man weight class at the Olympics...it's just 1 man and 1 match more than expected and it's a decision that would save the ass of the whole wrestling sport

let's see if the IOC does accept that or if UWW is forced to cut a quota place from the last OQT 

[phelps 7,033]

1 hour ago, avlar said:

@phelps

 

Our top-media paid attention to the story with the headline ""A group of corrupt officials". The winner of the 2016 Olympics in wrestling accused the judges of bias after the license tournament in Baku"

 

But the story is far from the end!

 

Bayramov stated in the interview for Azerbaijan IDMAN BIZ:

"Chamizo should not forget that he won 5-6 matches by biased decisions of the referees, and as a result became a European, World and Olympic medalist."

 

Counterattack is the best defence? But it looks he has no way to say that his own win was fair. 

 

Bayramov is just a stupid envious...

 

I wish him to get paid with the same money one day or another 

[phelps 7,033]

Just now, MHSN said:

well actually the center referee and the judge did OK, they had some mistakes but it happens. most of UWW refs have a low level of IQ. the problem was mostly with the mat chairman (I couldn't recognize him by his face) 

 

even in the last action, he tried to change the decision of other two refs about giving 2pts to Chamizo but failed.

well, imho, as explained in the article, nobody did OK

 

they missed the first call for Bayramov (6 pts instead of 4), then in the final minute they didn't give Chamizo at least 1 takedown and the 4-pt takedown which could easily have been called a PIN before the final shame of the last action

 

I mean, the match shouldn't even have been close in the end (and that would have avoided the final embarassment)

[phelps 7,033]

3 hours ago, MHSN said:

sorry but nobody touches Ibrahim Cicioglu. he is one of them. 

 

the last call was clear as crystal yet Mr Cici and his assistant Bouaziz said something else.

I think our President was talking of the mat ref and the other 2 side ref, not of the VAR criminal (however, they all should be banned for life from any wrestling activity)

[phelps 7,033]

and these are the words of the FIJLKAM president, Wrestling section:

 

“Ciò che ci ha veramente penalizzato è però la mancata qualificazione di Frank Chamizo. Noi abbiamo ricevuto grande solidarietà anche da molti del pubblico azero e degli addetti ai lavori, ovunque siamo andati ci è stato sottolineato che la vittoria era davvero a carico di Chamizo. Qualcuno l’ha definito ‘l’errore del secolo’”. 

 

Morsiani svela poi un retroscena: “In aeroporto ho parlato con uno dei supervisor, Kamel Bouaziz, che sostiene che non ci fosse controllo, nella proiezione. Loro hanno 4 o 5 telecamere su cui visionare l’azione. Noi abbiamo una foto in cui sono evidentemente 2 punti netti. Ma siamo sull’interpretativo, o sul cautelativo per loro. L’incontro però è stato falsato da tantissimi elementi: i primi 6 punti assegnati all’azero dovevano essere 4. Poi una continua fuga, che doveva essere penalizzata molto di più. C’è stato un atterramento con schienata e se non si vuol dare la schienata andrebbero dati almeno 4 punti. Insomma, per farla breve, gli addetti ai lavori stessi hanno detto che poteva finire 13-5 per Frank. Tutti errori poi confermati dal supervisor”.

 

“Noi siamo dirigenti e dobbiamo mantenere un equilibrio. Certo, in questa situazione è davvero difficile: come Federazione abbiamo fatto un’analisi, un programma dettagliato, abbiamo investito risorse ed energie per ottenere un risultato che ci è poi sfuggito per delle dinamiche che sembrano prese di posizione. La qualificazione olimpica per noi è fondamentale, su tutti i livelli, sportivi e di visibilità. Questa terna arbitrale non parteciperà alle Olimpiadi, questo mi è stato già comunicato. E questo dal nostro punto di vista è già un’ammissione di colpa”, conclude il dirigente federale.

[phelps 7,033]

this is just an extract, not the full interview:

 

“Sapevo di dover dare il doppio, il triplo in Azerbaigian, perché lottavo a casa loro e avevano comprato tutto. Lo stesso arbitro è stato con gli azeri per tutto il torneo. Io ce l’ho fatta, ma poi è successo qualcosa che ricorda il pugilato di tanti anni fa. Ritengo di aver subito un’ingiustizia enorme, ma non mi fermerò davanti a niente. E allora sì, lo voglio dire, sono venuti da me offrendomi dei soldi, 300.000 dollari per perdere. Non voglio dire chi, ma è successo la mattina del peso. Li ho mandati a f… perché non rappresento solo me stesso, ma anche l’Italia, la mia federazione, la Fijlkam, e l’Esercito. Non è facile rompere la mia integrità“, dichiara l’italo-cubano.

 

“Sono ancora sconvolto. Triste, addolorato, pieno di vergogna per quello che è successo. I cinque giudici sul tappeto hanno preso la stessa decisione, riconoscendo che avevo messo a terra il ginocchio destro dell’avversario, quindi avevo vinto. Dopo un incontro in cui il mio avversario, che ho sempre battuto, per cinque minuti non ha fatto che scappare. Poi si sono inventati un challenge a tempo scaduto, che non si può fare. A questo punto il presidente di tappeto ha guardato le immagini di una sola telecamera della video review e ha stabilito che quella mossa non c’era, contraddicendo gli altri cinque giudici. Sono così schifato che non mi sembra di parlare di sport“, prosegue il lottatore azzurro.

 

“I soldi muovono tutto. Mi esprimono solidarietà dagli Stati Uniti, dove combatto spesso, mi dicono che il responsabile dello scandalo sarà fermato: ma io che me ne faccio? Ho voluto denunciare tutto perché provo troppa rabbia, ma anche vergogna per il mio sport. In Turchia so di giocarmi ancora l’opportunità di tornare alle Olimpiadi, ma se dovessi rivivere certe scene e situazioni già viste a Baku giuro che stavolta faccio un macello. Se ho paura di pagare queste dichiarazioni all’ultimo torneo di qualificazione? Io vengo da Cuba, non ho paura di niente. Ora sono in un paese libero, posso dire quel che penso e quel che voglio. Non mi ferma nessuno“, conclude il bronzo olimpico di Rio 2016.

 

hope that google translate doesn't do too much damage to the content  

[phelps 7,033]

46 minutes ago, avlar said:

Are there any public texts to read it in detail?

https://www.repubblica.it/sport/vari/2024/04/10/news/frank_chamizo_intervista_soldi_perdere_incontro-422454182/

 

unfortunately, it's only for subscribers (and I'm not)

 

I guess that somewhere on the web (i.e. telegram or other sites with illegal stuff) sooner or later it will appear, but right now the only way is to pay for the newspaper's digital edition

[phelps 7,033]

according to the Italian Wrestling Federation's President, the infamous match involving Frank Chamizo has had some consequence already...

 

the whole crew that was refereeing that bout has been excluded from the Olympics 

 

which basically it's a pure and simple confession that more than something went wrong on sunday afternoon

 

in the meantime, in an interview to the major (?) Italian newspaper, la Repubblica, Chamizo himself said that he's been offered 300,000 US $ to intentionally lose that match   

 

of course, he refused but he said that in that exact moment he understood that he wasn't going to win in any case, as someone else would happily accept an amount like that to "adjust" the things just as the Azeri wanted  

[phelps 7,033]

given what happened Today, I expect Chamizo and Salkazanov (and maybe also Kuramagomedov) all in the same half of the bracket in the final tournament, with a highway for Demirtas to the final (and the quota place)

 

#manipulateddraw

 

[phelps 7,033]

that's disgusting! 

 

comparable to Roy Jones Jr. in Seoul 1988 in boxing

 

frankly, it's time for wrestling to be thrown out of the Olympics, just like boxing 

 

 

Edited April 7 by phelps

[phelps 7,033]

4 hours ago, Andry84 said:

Any streaming for today??

the same as yesterday, I guess

 

Bulgarian TV (online with a vpn) and Turkish TV (no idea if it was actually working without vpn or not when wrestling started)

 

the links are a couple of pages behind

[phelps 7,033]

16 hours ago, copravolley said:

The federation has probably bet everything on judo, which shows good results and prospects. Italian sport is underfunded and that's why sometimes you have to make difficult choices. I once saw Coni's calculations that less money is invested in Italian sport than in the 1990s. Without money, there will be no good coaches and modern training methods, unfortunately. Junior successes are important but they do not matter if it doesn`t translate into good results in seniors.

I think that funding is more than enough, especially compared with so many Nations that don't have anything but fractions of what we have and still manage to win bunch of medals at any level

 

imho, we just don't have knowhow and attitude (and maybe we're a bit short in terms of youngsters practicing the sport, but this doesn't stop our success in other disciplines, so I don't consider that a key factor)

[phelps 7,033]

2 hours ago, copravolley said:

The achievements of the Italian team are scandalous so far: 11 fights and 10 defeats in the first round + only 1 win for Nikoloz Kakhelashvili. The women's team didn't even put up a fight here and embarrassed themselves. I don't know what's the point of sending such weak players to the qualifying tournament? Italy's only chances are two aging freestyle competitors: Chamizo and Conyedo. There is no one young who would make progress or even fight. I don't know if there is something wrong with the financing of wrestling in Ita, e.g. at the cost of judo?). In any case, we need to think about what to do with this team after 2024. Does it make sense to invest in this sport, and if so, how? Perhaps it is worth thinking about naturalizing a few younger people, e.g. from the former USSR, since local wrestlers are in no way able to be competitive. Btw., the last medals for Italy were the participation of naturalized Cubans: Chamizo and Conyedo (the last native Italian to win an Olympic medal was Andrea Minguzzi in Beijing 2008: gold). In my opinion, without new naturalizations, there is no point in financing such a weak and uncompetitive team. Tomorrow I wish that Chamizo will win the quotas but this will not change the total decline of Italian wrestling in recent years.

well, the girls had some interesting results in the past years (Aurora Russo is the 2023 junior european and world champion)

 

and Piroddu also had great results in the youth classes

 

I don't really know why they just can't translate that once they enter the senior ranks? 

 

imho, we need to invest on top class coaches (and their "unconventional" methods, which might be hard to cope with here in our society) rather than going for athletes' shopping in Russia or in Cuba (especially nowadays)

Edited April 6 by phelps

[phelps 7,033]

Just now, phelps said:

https://www.trtspor.com.tr/canli-yayin-izle/trt-spor-yildiz/

so far, it's open also without vpn...let's see if it keeps going also when wrestling begins