Judo 2019 Discussion Thread

[thiago_simoes 1,423]

2 hours ago, MHSN said:

this is not anybody else's business.

From the point of view of a sovereignty of a nation, yes. But time and time again it has been proven that, as a sovereign nation, there is a lot of political involvement in sports, and if this is the route Iran wants to follow, no one should be surprised about the consequences.

Another point: I'm always baffled when you repeat that the rest of the world doesn't know how things work in Iran when all the news we get from many different sources is that athletes are punished by the government, gay people are killed, women are forbidden to go to gymnasiums and stadiums watching men compete... Either the whole world is obstinate to spread fake news about Iran, or you really are trying hard cover the problems in your nation (or you are not aware of them).

And if the judokas are allowed to compete individually, it's not really a tragedy for the sport, only for the nation as a political entity. Not that Iran didn't dig its own grave in this case, if all evidence is correct.

 

Edited September 18, 2019 by thiago_simoes

[MHSN 3,619]

2 hours ago, thepharoah said:

 

Really sad news for the sport lovers, if u want to ban federation why do u ban innocent athletes, why just taking guarantees from Iranian federation that they'll compete against everybody from now on, why Iranian regime doesn't make exception for Judo as long as its only ioc problem,  there must be other solutions and overall there's nothing hurts Israel in Iranian players avoiding them,  they just win extra gifts and opportunities to win medals 

 

that's the point. it only gifted some easy medals to Israel.

 

but there is simply no solution for that. it's not like they can let it happen in 1 sport , simply impossible

 

the best they can get from Iran is forcing Iran to not making it to public and don't use it for propaganda. and they already have that. in past 10 years Iran never brags about this. they always made other excuse for avoiding Israel. while for example 20 years ago they were proudly announcing they are withdrawing because of Israel.

 

Iran with this person on top is not going to give anything more about this matter. I lost hope on that long time ago. and the idea of Iranian athletes participating under IOC flag is even more impossible. Iran won't let that happen and beside that I assume 80% of athletes don't want to participate under anything but the Iranian flag.

Mollaei was unique and I believe he will regret it later in his life. specially if he continues to give interviews like this . he still did nothing wrong per law but he is crossing the line and if he does that he can never come back to Iran again. he probably thinks he doesn't need that because he has a "life" in Germany but I know people who did such things and 10 years later they regret it big time.

Edited September 18, 2019 by MHSN

[DaniSRB 899]

If only IJF wanted to change something imo they should have fixed Iranian win over Israeli and maybe peolpe in Iran would stand on athlete's side and make governament (and sah i guess?) change policy

 

all other lead to ban obviously...

[MHSN 3,619]

11 minutes ago, thiago_simoes said:

From the point of view of a sovereignty of a nation, yes. But I'm always baffled when you repeat that the rest of the world doesn't know how things work in Iran when all the news we get from many different sources is that athletes are punished by the government, gay people are killed, women are forbidden to go to gymnasiums and stadiums watching men compete... Either the whole world is obstinate to spread fake news about Iran, or you really are trying hard cover the problems in your nation (your last sentence leads me to believe the second option is somewhat reasonable).

 

do I sound like someone who supports the current regime ? if I have only "one wish" in my life that is to see regime change here in my life (I'm not optimistic about it though , maybe after 50-60 years and i don't think I live that much) of course only peacefully. I don't want another revolution, and I don't want a fucking western country telling us what to do and what's good for us. we already had that 60 years ago when they toppled the democratic elected prime minister to keep their puppet "Shah" on power. that leaded us to this current disaster.

 

the only way for positive change is to educate people and then again educate people. and that's not possible with bans , suspensions and sanctions. people don't improve their "culture" when they have to worry about food, medicines etc.

 

I just hate when media exaggerate about things. most of these news are only half correct. I can give you detailed answers about every single matter. but I think that's pointless because you don't listen. so I make it as short as possible.

 

The Asian Volleyball Championship is happening in Iran right now and women are allowed to go the stadium. do I have to show you some pictures ? I can do that if you don't believe me. and it happened in other sports like basketball. handball. but yes in sports where men are half naked (or whatever they call it) like wrestling, swimming etc women are NOT allowed. football is a different matter. I explained it in details somewhere else.

 

our football NT captain Masoud Shojaei expressed his idea about women should be allowed something like 1000 times. even in front of the president, yeah hardliners hate him and their media use every single opportunity to attack him but he is still our NT captain. nobody "punished" him. he even played against an Israeli club in Europa league. I don't know what do you mean by "athletes are punished" ? punished for what exactly ?? 6 of our NT players had "Green Wristband" in 2009 in crucial WCQ match vs South Korea to support the green movement. one of them was Shojaei and he is still playing for the NT. the rest are retired and coaching in the league. nothing happened to them (actually that was the real bravery and people never forget those 6 players, at least I won't)

 

and about the gay people. I told you before. nobody is killed in Iran only for being gay. in Iran they simply prefer to ignore it. because they don't want to accept there are gay people. they are not trying to track and find gay people. no at all. yes there is death penalty for sexual intercourse between two men (and even not for two women) but for proving that the judge needs 4 adult person to confirms it ! I'm sure nobody invites 4 guys to his bedroom. this is simply a rule to scare people from making it to the public. and if you come to Iran and tell people you are gay. half of them don't care, probably 30% will be curious and ask friendly questions about it. and 10-20% will not like you and stop the conversation. nobody is going to harm you for that. I'm sure about it. absolutely nobody. even those fanatic stupid Islamists. they always say this is a disease not a crime. (I know this is still bad, I'm just explaining the situation)

 

things are not simply black and white. and Iran is not North Korea. (and I'm starting to think maybe even North Korea is not that bad, I learned to not trust the western media )

Edited September 18, 2019 by MHSN

[MHSN 3,619]

15 minutes ago, DaniSRB said:

If only IJF wanted to change something imo they should have fixed Iranian win over Israeli and maybe peolpe in Iran would stand on athlete's side and make governament (and sah i guess?) change policy

 

all other lead to ban obviously...

 

sah ? that was Shah (meaning king in Persian) . no this one has a different title. still the same thing though with almost absolute power, even worse

 

people are on the athlete's side. at least the majority but there is no referendum about it. nobody asks people's opinion in this matter. and it's not like people are going into the streets for that. and they always pay a good money prize to the athlete to at least make up for that. Mr Mollaei was a bit upset because nobody paid him for his loss in China masters !! which wasn't an intentional defeat, he simply lost to the Japanese , but now we are here he is making all his normal defeats like that one in Paris (the only time he lost on purpose) what makes me angry is everybody believes whatever he says. I'm sure people here who knows Judo can back me up that his defeat against Casse in WCh semifinal was real.

Edited September 18, 2019 by MHSN

[DaniSRB 899]

Just now, MHSN said:

 

sah ? that was Shah (meaning king in Persian) . no this one has a different title. still the same thing though

 

people are on the athlete's side. at least the majority but there is no referendum about it. nobody asks people's opinion in this matter. and it's not like people are going into the streets for that. and they always pay a good money prize to the athlete to at least make up for that. Mr Mollaei was a bit upset because nobody paid him for his loss in China masters !! which wasn't an intentional defeat, he simply lost to the Japanese , but now we are here he is making all his normal defeats like that one in Paris (the only time he lost on purpose) what makes me angry is everybody believes whatever he says. I'm sure people here who knows Judo can back me up that his defeat against Casse in WCh semifinal was real.

oops, i wanted to say supreme leader

 

i supposed people are on side of athletes but maybe risking and winning Israeli athlete would make  governament change "their propaganda" in other direction (like wohoo we won Israel, blah, blah)

 

chances for this are like 5%, but at least that would be a try better than what IJF with Mollaei achieved now

 

[MHSN 3,619]

Just now, DaniSRB said:

oops, i wanted to say supreme leader

 

i supposed people are on side of athletes but maybe risking and winning Israeli athlete would make  governament change "their propaganda" in other direction (like wohoo we won Israel, blah, blah)

 

chances for this are like 5%, but at least that would be a try better than what IJF with Mollaei achieved now

 

 

yeah that and that's funny people/media in west call him just "Ayatollah" sometimes. that's wrong. that's just a title. there are lots of Ayatollahs. Supreme Leader is the current title for "that guy"

 

actually it happened once before. back in 1987 during the World Wrestling Championships one of the Iranian wrestlers faced and beat the Israeli wrestler in Greco-Roman. at first it was a great victory over the "enemy" and from what i heard the newspapers made it like a huge win. but then when someone told that to the "supreme leader" (not this guy but the founder of the Islamic republic) they called the whole team from France in middle of the competition and didn't let the freestyle team to even participate (freestyle competition was supposed to held right after the GR) one of the rare occasions Iran didn't participate in World Freestyle wrestling Champs.

 

so no beating Israel won't change a thing.

 

you know Mollaei's plan was going to the final and beat Muki (and I don't know what after that, most probably not returning to Iran) but then when he lost the semifinal he went for his "Plan B" and posing himself as a victim and started to lie and working with IJF. if he could beat Muki in the final and then return back to Iran with his gold medal. that would be something interesting. he would lose his place in the team for sure but they wouldn't touch him. I'm sure about that. and that way he could be a "real hero" and maybe that could encourage other athletes to maybe do the same. but now, to me he is a lying coward. even though lots of people in Iran believe his lies and still consider him hero. they will face the reality when he lose next time. he is speaking in his interviews like all of his defeats were intentional and I had to explain to some of my friends, if he is such an unbeatable champion, why he never won the Asian title in his career ?! there is no Israel in Asia. but people believe what they want to believe.

[Gianlu33 4,568]

10 hours ago, Olympian1010 said:

It’s because the Western countries won’t accept Palestine and the Arab countries won’t accept Israel. Those in the middle decided it was better to have none than one.

 

It's because CIJM want an Israel-Palestine accord

[Olympian1010 7,976]

6 minutes ago, Gianlu33 said:

 

It's because CIJM want an Israel-Palestine accord

Right, and when half the membership wants one side and half the membership the other, you decide neither will participate. Morocco should be thrown out too.

[donerkebab 9]

Every country in the world has at least one enemy. (whatever you called) If all countries decide they don’t compete their nemesis, there will be no competition. I live in Turkey which is 95percent Muslim. Thank god we don’t have such policy. Yeah we’re not the brightest sport country (buying athletes , dopes, etc) at least we don’t act like spoiled child. We compete with Cyprus- a country we don’t even recognize- . If Iranian federations keep their discrimination against any nation’s athlete. Yeah they should be banned too. If my country do same thing , they should be banned. Sorry for Iranian judo. But it’s the right thing to do .

 

About med games I think ISR and PLE should participate. But it is impossible with 7 Arabic nations. 

 

Edited September 19, 2019 by donerkebab