Weightlifting Qualification to Tokyo 2020 Summer Olympic Games

[merlinsbeard 22]

3 hours ago, heywoodu said:

People care about anything they can create drama about. A very tiny portion of the world knows even one weightlifter (and an even smaller portion knows a female weightlifter), but a large part has an opinion about transgenders competing against non-transgender women and a lot of those people don't want to have any discussion about it, they just want to put their fingers in their ears and yell as loud as possible how much Hubbard competing is all bullshit or something.

 

In short: people aren't caring about this being women's weightlifting, they're seeing an opportunity to shout  

 

Sadly I can already see it in the comments in Dutch media, where a majority of comments is about how she'll destroy the field (lol) and that's so unfair, let alone the predictable yet rather pathetic comments where people refuse to go with any feminine pronouns, 'because I don't recognize transgenders '. Ugh.

What is yout argument? Do you think transgender women should be able to compete against biological ones? Why do you think so? How do you respond to effects of hormonal differences?

 

You should defend your approach rather than just blaming others of not caring and just shouting

[JoshMartini007 2,538]

It's not that simple

 

Given the hormonal therapy transgender athletes have to go through you could argue that they are at the level (or even below, given some women have higher natural levels of testosterone) of biological women. More research needs to be done, but if trans women had such a supposedly unfair advantage then why haven't we seen a lot more trans athletes over the last two decades since the IOC allowed them to compete?

[heywoodu 15,147]

29 minutes ago, merlinsbeard said:

What is yout argument? Do you think transgender women should be able to compete against biological ones? Why do you think so? How do you respond to effects of hormonal differences?

 

You should defend your approach rather than just blaming others of not caring and just shouting

I am not necessarily in favour of transgender women being allowed to compete against 'born women', no. I really don't know which solution would be the right one, if a right one even exists. Banning them is unfair, allowing them is unfair, forcing severe hormone treatments is not as much unfair as it is sort of inhumane...it is extremely hard. A solution does need to be found, but the messed up thing is that basically every solution is a wrong one, nothing 'good' is possible in this situation.

 

By the way, I was mostly talking based on what I see in Dutch media (sadly), or the comments there: that is indeed a whole lot of simply shouting "Hubbard competing is bullshit!".

[heywoodu 15,147]

Just now, JoshMartini007 said:

More research needs to be done, but if trans women had such a supposedly unfair advantage then why haven't we seen a lot more trans athletes over the last two decades since the IOC allowed them to compete?

Don't forget that also the likes of Hubbard need to train very, very hard. That part doesn't change, and a large majority of people - transgender or not - either can't or don't want to live a life which is basically 100% about their sport and barely anything else. Since the number of transgenders is significantly lower than the number of non-transgenders, one can sort of assume it'd be rare to find someone who is both transgender and willing to dedicate their life to their sport.

[Dnl 691]

   I remember back in 2019 the british rapper Zuby claimed to be a woman and crushed the british record so  expect things like that in coming days...

[JoshMartini007 2,538]

5 minutes ago, Dnl said:

   I remember back in 2019 the british rapper Zuby claimed to be a woman and crushed the british record so  expect things like that in coming days...

 

And that's the issue with those people they think some pre-op trans person can compete when the IOC has very tough rules before they are even allowed to compete.

[Dnl 691]

22 minutes ago, JoshMartini007 said:

 

And that's the issue with those people they think some pre-op trans person can compete when the IOC has very tough rules before they are even allowed to compete.

Yep the real problem here is that the IOC needs to speak up and explain why how where when... to proof the claims wrong or to find different solutions if the claims are right... leaving an issue like that “hanging in there “ is the worst possible thing in this situation 

[MHSN 3,625]

55 minutes ago, JoshMartini007 said:

It's not that simple

 

Given the hormonal therapy transgender athletes have to go through you could argue that they are at the level (or even below, given some women have higher natural levels of testosterone) of biological women. More research needs to be done, but if trans women had such a supposedly unfair advantage then why haven't we seen a lot more trans athletes over the last two decades since the IOC allowed them to compete?

as a male he was a below average weightlifter, even in Oceania standards which is nowhere near the world level

 

and now as a female she is a medal contender at the age of 43 I think if she was 25 she would be a gold medal favorite . I'm no doctor and I have absolutely no idea about her body before and now but comparing his results with her results clearly says she has an unfair advantage over the rest.

 

yes I agree banning her would be a bit unfair but letting her compete will be more unfair to the rest of the field. Caster Semenya has 100 times more rights than her to compete.

[Adriano 590]

Semenya has also biological advantage, but maybe it is her "talent" from God? She is stronger than anyone? On the other hand in my opinion it is fair, she is a women and she can start in women's competition.  It is everything according to rules. Congratulation for her fight, She is a role model for mamy trans people. This a subject for experts from sport medicin, maybe it should be point converter or something.  "haters" should stop talking about her this way, they do not know nothing about trans people. 

[szy123 79]

2 hours ago, JoshMartini007 said:

 

And that's the issue with those people they think some pre-op trans person can compete when the IOC has very tough rules before they are even allowed to compete.

And media do not care to explain that to people. Becuase they of course thrive on controversy... Looking through comments in Polish media today was even more painful and frustrating than usually.