OlympicIRL

I think Denmark will have too much for the rest of us in Path D. Maybe we can ask Infantino if we can be the 49th team

I think yes, since he did go to Eurovision and even competed in the semi

Not right away, we usually offer to extend the deadline by a couple of days if it means we can get them in. Also new countries can join in that time also.But really hoping everyone can make the initial deadline so I can start listening to all your entries this weekend .

So with just over 2 days left before the song submission deadline, 18 out of the 32 registered nations have submitted their song entries. I am sure the remaining nations and juries are in the process of selecting their song entries but I will tag them here to keep track of who is yet to submit their entry: @Federer91 @Agger@Wumo @Benolympique@Bohemia @catgamer @Fly_like_a_don @Dnl @Bearas @Glen @heywoodu @rybak @kungshamra71 @IoNuTzZ @amen09 @Illya

IRELAND Ireland will be represented at TISC Annual 2025 by folk band Kingfishr. Formed in Limerick in 2022, Kingfishr comprises lead singer Eddie Keogh, Eoghan McGrath, and Eoin Fitzgibbon, whose style of music embraces Irish traditional folk with a modern sound. Their music has resonated with the Irish Gaelic sports fandom and rural communities across the land. Their 2025 hit Killeagh, a tribute to their parish hurling team, seeped into the mainstream consciousness of the nation and was played throughout the Gaelic football and hurling season. I have chosen another song from their debut album Halcyon to represent Ireland at TISC. I hope you enjoy them Kingfishr - Diamonds and Roses

Wow! What a rollercoaster this campaign has been for us! We have been so bad in earlier games that it’s hard to believe what happened this week with 2 unexpected victories. As Irish fans who experienced similar heart-wrenching results over the years, we can certainly empathise with our Hungarian counterparts for that lake sucker punch. Still don’t see a way for us to qualify but at least we are still alive!

Yes you can post the Swedish entry and if @Swewi joins before the deadline you can still discuss together and if you need to change your entry before the deadline you can. If you want to wait also a couple of days before posting that is also fine. Either option is fine

Reminder to all: there are 11 days left to submit your song for the 2025 TISC Annual. Entries close at 21:00 GMT on Thursday, 20th November. So far 4 nations have submitted their song entries. At the moment we have 31 nations represented. Hopefully we can get at least one more to surpass TISC Annual 2015 as the TISC with the fewest number of nations participating (31). We have 39 jury members registered. We have 6 multi-member juries as it stands with Italy leading the way as usual with 4 jury members.

Errr, I don’t really know how to answer this. Is the artist AI?

Yes absolutely, there can be more than one jury member from the same country! You can private message with @hckošice and you can agree on which song you would like to represent Slovakia. Then when it comes to voting, you will send your votes separately and they will be combined by the organiser to form one single set of votes from the Slovakian jury . Let me know if you have any other questions!

@Erigert @LDOG @titicow @Topicmaster1010 @ManuCHIL @Vic Liu @Hipooo @Agger @Bohemia @Benolympique @Cinnamon Bun @Dragon @Makedonas @Yannakis @maestro @Vektor @Fly_like_a_don @Griff88 @Henry_Leon @SteveParker @Pablita @valtellina @Werloc @Glen @Ionoutz24 @IoNuTzZ @heywoodu @Wanderer @kungshamra71 @Memo @dezbee2008 @Olympian1010 @Monzanator @Damian @Finnator123 @hckošice @Bailer @catgamer @Ruslan @kungshamra71 @NikolaB @avlar @Kerkun@Super Mario @hoversaBR @NearPup @lapaj @FeelingVeryOlympic @PHI2019 @erw @Braulio @Surlympics @tigersay @dullard @NaBUru38 @BruT06 @BTTF @DAKIS @Duki1994 @Kirkpatrick @LowerSaxony @Dmitry @dobar_73 @Jesse_Pinkman) @nenad @Oxymorons @pedja789 @Jose Luis @Jur @Swewi @merlinsbeard @Art Art @Irynka Would love to see as many of you as possible take part in our contest this year. We are now accepting entries

I'm pleased to welcome entries for the 2025 TISC Annual Songs from January 1st, 2024 - June 30th 2025 are eligible for this contest. I haven't decided on a date for the Grand Final yet, likely it will be after the New Year but will leave that undecided for now to see how things go. Feel free to tag the usual participants or anyone new, hopefully we will get enough interest!

Charter and Official Rulebook SECTION 1 - SONG CHOICE AND ELIGIBILITY: 1. (a) All songs must be ORIGINAL, NEW MATERIAL, released between January 1st, 2024 and June 30th, 2025. Exceptions will be made in the following circumstances: (i) A song released as a single no more than 6 months before the cut-off date may ONLY be chosen if that song was subsequently released on an album for the first time during the official period of eligibility. For example, a song which was released as a single on July 1st, 2023 may be chosen if that song was later included in an album released on January 1st, 2024 or thereafter. (ii) A song which is a copy of an original song may ONLY be chosen if both artists of the original song and the copy version are from the same nation AND if the original song was also released within the period of eligibility (on or after January 1st, 2024). 1. (b) All songs must be ORIGINAL to the nation for which they are competing. In other words, if a song is a copy or cover of an original song by an artist from another nation, then it is ONLY permitted to participate for the nation of the artist who produced the original version. If the artist of the cover version is from the same nation as the original artist, then the cover version must fulfill rule 1(a) in order to be eligible to participate. 1. (c) Songs that competed at Eurovision shall be excluded from competing at TAISC. However, songs which competed in a national final but were not put forward to represent their nation at Eurovision may be selected to compete at TAISC. SECTION 2 - ARTIST CHOICE AND ELIGIBILITY: 2. (a) Artists chosen to represent a nation must have been born in or be of the same nationality as the nation for which they are participating OR they must have more or equal association with that nation. 2. (b) In the case of bands, at least 50% of the band must be born in or be of the same nationality as the nation for which they are participating OR they should have more or equal association with that nation. 2. (c) For the purposes of the Totallympics International Song Contest, the same concept of nationality as that used by the IOC (International Olympic Committee) will be adopted. So, for example, artists from Scotland must represent Great Britain, artists from Faroe Islands must represent Denmark, etc. SECTION 3 - NATIONAL JURY VOTING: 3. (a) National juries may consist of a single jury member OR a multi-member jury made up of two or more users from that nation. 3. (b) National juries must send their votes in SECRET (via private message) to the host organising member(s) of the song contest as requested during the designated voting window. 3. (c) National juries must submit their song entry on the official TISC thread for that edition within the designated song entry selection window as designated by the host organiser(s). National juries who fail to submit their song within the required time frame are at risk of disqualification from the contest. 3. (d) Each jury member in a multi-member jury shall send their individual preferences in SECRET (via private message) to the host organising member(s). The votes from each of the members of the multi-member jury will be combined to form a single set of votes which will represent the overall voting preference of that national jury. In this way, the votes from each of the participating national juries, whether single or multi-member juries, will hold equal value or weight. 3. (e) National juries will use the following voting format: (i) Jury members will award points to their 12 favourite songs in ascending manner from points 1 through 12 (inclusive) with the first preference receiving a maximum score of 12 points, second preference receiving 11 points, third preference receiving 10 points, and so forth until the song of 12th preference which will receive a single point. See below scoring table for reference: 1st Preference 12 pts 2nd Preference 11 pts 3rd Preference 10 pts 4th Preference 9 pts 5th Preference 8 pts 6th Preference 7 pts 7th Preference 6 pts 8th Preference 5 pts 9th Preference 4 pts 10th Preference 3 pts 11th Preference 2 pts 12th Preference 1 pt (ii) In single member juries, these scores will subsequently represent the National Jury Vote of that nation. However, in multi-member juries, the votes of all the jury members from that nation will be combined to form a single set of points. The song which has received the most number of points from that national jury will be deemed to be the overall first preference choice of that jury and will receive the maximum score of 12 points; the song which has received the second highest number of points from that national jury will be deemed to be the overall second preference choice of that jury and will receive a score of 11 points, and so forth until the song which has received the 12th highest number of points which will receive a single point from that national jury. (iii) In the case of multi-member juries with 4 jury members or more, that jury can choose between the standard voting format (12-11-10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1) or the following alternative points format (18-15-12-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1). However, all jurors of that national jury must use the same format when submitting their votes. It is not permitted that some use the standard format and some others use the alternative format. As such, if a national jury wants to choose the alternative format over the standard format, that national jury must debate together in private message to come to a common consensus or majority vote on which to decide. The result of that discussion will then be posted on thread to inform all contestants and the organisers of their decision.All members of that jury will then submit their votes using the selected format. The host will then combine the votes of the jury members in the usual manner to form a single set of points as standard (12-11-10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1). (iv) National juries consisting of 2 members will be allowed the right to opt-in to an alternative voting process which guarantees that any song which received votes from both jury members will appear in the final top 12 combined list of that nation's final voting table. This will be achieved by removing the lowest ranked nation(s) in the combined top 12 which received points from just 1 jury member. The removed nation(s) will then become the highest ranking reserves. This opt-in method is available to national juries consisting of 2 members only. Any jury wishing to adopt this method shall inform the organisers of their decision to opt-in to the process by posting their intention to do so on the TISC thread prior to the opening of the voting window. The standard method of combining votes will still be the default method so if a 2-member national jury does not inform otherwise on thread, or if both jury members are in disagreement about which method to adopt, then the standard method will automatically be used to combine their votes. 3. (f) National juries must submit their votes by the official voting deadline as designated by the host organiser(s). National juries who fail to submit their votes within the required time frame will be disqualified from the contest. 3. (g) Any Nation which fails to participate in the voting process will be automatically disqualified from the contest. 3. (h) A random draw will take place in advance of the Grand Final to determine the order in which the National Juries will reveal their votes. This draw must be shown to be transparent and available to competing members should they wish to follow the result. The result of this draw must always be adhered to in order to preserve the random nature in which the voting will progress during the Grand Final. A National Jury may only request a "swap" in their designated voting position if, after the random draw, they have been assigned a voting slot outside of "reasonable hours". For the purpose of this contest, reasonable hours will be determined as anytime between 08:30-23:00 local time of that national jury. During the "swap" process, the host organiser will first look to make swaps between National Juries who are eligible for swaps after the random draw. SECTION 4 - NATIONAL JURY TIE-BREAK PROCEDURES: 4. (a) In the event of a tie in the combined votes of multi-member juries, the following set of rules outlines how the tie-break will be resolved: (i) The song which has received points from the greatest number of jury members will be deemed the winner of the tie. For example, take the following scenario.... Songs A, B, and C each received a combined score of 10 points after the results of each national jury member were combined and calculated. Song A received a single score of 10 points from one jury member, Song B received scores of 7 points and 3 points from two separate jury members and Song C received scores of 5 points, 3 points and 2 points from 3 separate jury members. All three songs received a total of 10 points, however, Song C is deemed to be the winner of the tie because a greater number of jury members voted for that song (3 members in this case). (ii) If the songs remain deadlocked after 4 (a) (i), the song which received the highest value score from an individual jury member will be deemed the winner of the tie. For example, take the following scenario.... Song A and Song B each received a combined score of 14 points after the results of each national jury member were combined and calculated. Song A received scores of 8+6 points while Song B received scores of 7+7 points. Song A will be deemed the winner of that tie since that song received a score of higher value (8 points) from one of the national jury members. (iii) If the songs remain deadlocked after 4 (a) (i) and (ii), jury members from that national jury who did not award any votes to any of the songs involved in the tie-break will be asked to break the tie. This tie-break rule can only ever be used to break ties in juries of 3 members or more and ONLY if there is a jury member who did not vote for any of the songs involved in the tie-break. (iv) After the procedures 4 (a) (i), (ii) and (iii) have been carried out, all outstanding ties within the votes of a national jury shall be resolved by carrying out a single random draw. The nature of this random draw shall be as follows: The names of each national jury member will be entered into a draw. Each name will be drawn. The first jury member drawn will be awarded the right to break the unresolved tie of highest value. The second jury member drawn will be awarded the right to break the unresolved tie of the second highest value. For example, take the following scenario.... there are two members of National Jury X. After the votes of User A and User B are combined and calculated the following situation arises: COUNTRY (Total points) -> Combined value Country A (24 points) -> 12 points Country B (21 points) -> 11 or 10 points Country C (21 points) -> 11 or 10 points Country D (18 points) -> 9 points Country E (16 points) -> 8 points Country F (13 points) -> 7 or 6 points Country G (13 points) -> 7 or 6 points Country H (10 points) -> 5 points Country I (7 points) -> 4 or 3 points County J (7 points) -> 4 or 3 points Country K (4 points) -> 2 points Country L (1 point) -> 1 or 0 points County M (1 point) -> 1 or 0 points Those highlighted in red text are those ties which could not be resolved by 4 (a) (i), (ii) or (iii). As a result of the random draw, User A was drawn first, meaning that user will be given the right to break the unresolved tie of the highest value (the tie between Country B and C for 11 or 10 points). User B was drawn second meaning that user will be given the right to break the unresolved tie of the second highest value (the tie between Country F and G for 7 or 6 points). The order will then be reversed so that User B will be given the right to break the unresolved tie of the third highest value (the tie between Country I and J for 4 or 3 points). User A will finally be given the right to break the unresolved tie of the fourth highest value (the tie between Country L and M for 1 or 0 points). This procedure to break the unresolved ties will be used for national juries of any number with the first user drawn being given the right to break the unresolved tie of the highest value, the second user drawn being given the right to break the unresolved tie of the second highest value, third user the third highest tie, etc. reversing the order if need be when the order has completed one cycle. However, it should be noted that unresolved tie-breaks which require random draws will occur mostly in two-member juries since national juries with 3 or more members will likely resolve all ties through 4 (a) (i), (ii) or (iii). SECTION 5 - OVERALL SCOREBOARD TIE-BREAK PROCEDURES: 5. (a) In the event of a tie in the overall scoreboard between two or more nations, the following set of rules outlines how the tie-break will be resolved: (i) The nation which has received points from the greatest number of National Juries will be deemed the winner of the tie. (ii) If there is still a tie after 5 (a) (i), the nation which has received the greatest number of 12 points will be deemed the winner of the tie. (iii) If there is still a tie after 5 (a) (i), (ii), the nation which has received the greatest number of 11 points will be deemed the winner of the tie. If the tie remains deadlocked, the process will continue by counting the number of 10 points each nation received, 9 points, 8 points, and so on until the tie-break can be resolved. 5. (b) If there is still a tie in the overall scoreboard between two or more nations after 5 (a) (i), (ii) and (iii) have been implemented, those nations shall be deemed to have tied for position in the overall scoreboard. SECTION 6 - TEAM CHALLENGE FORMAT AND RULES: 6. (a) Each edition of the Totallympics International Song Contest will feature a Team Challenge competition. The main purpose of this team element is to further enhance the community spirit that is an integral feature of TISC events and to provide another means of encouraging users to interact with one another. 6. (b) The TISC Team Challenge event may vary in format from one contest to the next. The nature of the format will be dependent on the number of participating nations. 6. (c) Nations will be assigned to their team by random draw. 6. (d) The ideal format is that there will be a minimum of 8 teams, each made up of 4 nations. However, if that is not possible, the teams will be formed from one of the following formats (listed in order of preference): (i) teams of 3 nations (ii) teams of 5 nations (iii) if it's not possible for each team to have the same number of nations, a special provision will be introduced (for example: power plays). 6. (e) It is recommended that the teams shall be named after various cities/regions of the host country and combined with a nickname. For example, a contest in Brazil might feature teams called the Brasilia Capitals and Manaus Amazons. SECTION 7 - ELIGIBILITY, CONDUCT AND RESPONSIBILITY OF PARTICIPANTS: 7. (a) Any first time participant must have been registered on the forum at least 2 months before they take part in the contest. The date used to calculate the 2 months rule will be 2 months prior to the National Selection deadline. A first time participant may be allowed special dispensation to participate in TISC, even if they do not fulfill the 2-month rule criteria. However, in such circumstances, that user must have shown a high level of activity in the forum in terms of posts and presence. This special dispensation will be awarded on the agreement of Totallympics admin, namely Sindo, who will conduct all necessary verification checks and will be given final approval by the TISC management team, namely OlympicIRL and the host of that TISC edition. These rules are not designed to exclude, only to ensure TISC retains a distinct character, built upon a unique community atmosphere created by users of the forum. 7. (b) Participating users shall be respectful of the song choice of all nations once they fulfill all of the necessary eligibility requirements. 7. (c) Participating users must not reveal or give any indication as to their preferences or voting choices at any stage before the official announcement of the votes during the Grand Final. 7. (d) Participating users must not discuss private voting procedures with other members so as to ensure fairness is always in play and to ensure any suspense during the Grand Final is kept intact. 7. (e) Participating users must be respectful when posting and discussing with other members on the Totallympics International Song Contest Thread. 7. (f) If foul play is detected with respect to 7 (a), (b), (c), (d) or (e) at any stage before, during or after the contest, the TISC organising committee reserves the right to place the participation or result of that nation under review. SECTION 8 - HOSTING DUTIES, RESPONSIBILITIES AND ORGANISATIONAL TIMEFRAME: 8. (a) The host organisation should adhere to the follow basic schedule upon organising the contest: There shall be 2 weeks allocated for registration and national selection until the deadline to submit an entry. There shall be 2 weeks allocated for voting (of which a maximum of 4 days will be allocated to the host jury to submit their votes to a designated neutral third party). There shall be a maximum of 2 weeks allocated after the voting window closes to allow the hosts time to organise the Grand Final. This 6 week time-frame was agreed upon during a public vote but in special circumstances, exceptions will be considered. 8. (b) The host organiser(s) must submit their votes in advance of receiving votes from other National Juries by private message. The votes of the host(s) should be sent by private message to a neutral third party after the national selection window has passed and before the national jury voting phase begins. 8. (c) The host organiser(s) must abide by the same rules that govern the participation of users in the Totallympics International Song Contest as outlined in Section 6. SECTION 9 - FUTURE HOSTING RIGHTS: 9. (a) Upon completion of the relevant song contest, the winning nation will automatically be awarded the rights to host the subsequent Totallympics International Song Contest 1 year later. 9. (b) If the winning nation wishes to decline the hosting duties, the runner-up of that edition will then be awarded the opportunity to accept or decline the hosting rights. If the runner-up also declines the hosting duties, the 3rd placed nation of that edition will have the opportunity to accept or decline the hosting rights. 9. (c) In the event that the hosting rights are declined by the top 3 ranked nations at the previous edition of the relevant TISC, an open bid process will be conducted in order to award the hosting rights. This process will be open to all candidates, first-time hosts as well as previous hosts. A random draw will take place with each candidate being awarded a number of tickets in the draw. The more tickets a candidate has entered, the better their chance of being selected as host. Here is the process for how the tickets will be distributed: Each candidate automatically awarded 1 ticket each in the draw. However, additional tickets awarded as follows - did not host in the previous 5 editions (+1 additional ticket) - did not host in the previous 10 editions (+1 additional ticket) - did not host previously (+2 additional tickets) - took part in the previous bidding process (+1 additional ticket). For first-time hosts, they will add an additional ticket for each edition they are unsuccessful for in bidding, thus increasing their chance slightly with each unsuccessful bid. This increase will only be available for first-time hosts. Additionally, if a first-time host missed 2 consecutive bidding campaigns, then their tickets no longer carry forward and they lose those additional tickets.

Totallympics Annual International Song Contest 2025 Totallympics Forum - 03 November 2025 - TBD Official Schedule Greenwich Mean Time (UTC +0) Monday, November 3rd 18:00 National Jury Registration and Entries Selection Window Open Thursday, November 20th 21:00 National Jury Registration and National Entries Window Closed Friday, November 21st 09:00 Host Jury Voting Window Open Sunday, November 23rd 18:00 Host Jury Voting Window Closed Sunday, November 23rd 19:00 National Jury Voting Window Open Friday, December 12th 21:00 National Jury Voting Window Closed Saturday, December 13th TBD Voting Order Draw TBD TBD Opening Ceremony TBD TBD Totallympics Annual International Song Contest 2025 Grand Final Participating Nations Nation Jury Member Artist - Song Voted Albania Erigert Xhensila, Ardian Bujupi, Noizy - Lamtumir - Argentina konig Miranda! & TINI - Me Gusta Brazil hoversaBR Ferrugem, Sorriso Maroto - Apaguei Pra Todos Bulgaria Federer91 DIA - Грехове (Sins) - Canada Topicmaster1010 The Privateers - Never Give It Up (Oh Canada) China Vic Liu Shan Yichun - Zhu Yu - Denmark Agger, Wumo Blaue Blume - Følsom Dreng - France Benolympique, Bohemia Santa - Recommence-moi Germany catgamer Oimara - Wackelkontakt - Great Britain Dragon Olivia Dean - Man I Need - Greece maestro, Yannakis Anna Vissi - Se Periptosi Pou - Guatemala Fer GUA Bohemia Suburbana - Pinta La Pared India Fly_like_a_don, Roamingrover86 H.O.M. - DNChL - Indonesia Griff88 Dua Empat feat. Mar Vilaseca - My Funny Guy Ireland OlympicIRL Kingfishr - Diamonds And Roses Israel Dnl Sasson Shaulov - Always Loves Me - Italy Gianlu33, Henry_Leon, Pablita, SteveParker Coma_Cose - Cuoricini Kazakhstan Ruslan Sadraddin - Melodrama (Çiki Çiki) Lithuania Bearas Vaidas Baumila - Marozika Malta Glen Jamie Cardona - Stajna Konna Aħna - Mexico mrv86 The Warning - S!ck - Netherlands heywoodu Son Mieux - It's Only Love - Poland rybak Wiktor Dyduła - Nie Mówię Tak, Nie Mówię Nie - Portugal kungshamra71 Karetus, Vitorino & Iolanda - Laurinda - Romania IoNuTzZ Dan Balan - Oriunde Ai Fi - Serbia NikolaB Željko Joksimović - Ela Dose Slovakia Bailer, hckošice Emma Drobná feat. Ego - Rande Slovenia justony RANR - Vedno - Spain Cobi Gabry Ponte, Vicco - Viento - Sweden Belle Nomi Tales - Funniest Thing - Tunisia amen09 Noor Arjoun & Selim Arjoun - Wayo - Turkey Memo Duman - Kufi - Ukraine Illya Artem Pivovarov ft. Klavdia Petrivna - Baraban - United States dezbee2008, Olympian1010 Lana Lubany - Nazareth Jury Members 43 Nations 34

Yes exactly, songs from 2024 will be eligible for sure. I am thinking we can make the eligibility period 2024 to the first half of 2025 and after the Annual we can assess what next year looks like in terms of how many contests we are doing. I guess this contest will be a litmus test on the interest of TISC so we’ll see how things proceed after that.

Ok so I have given it some thought this week and I am willing to try to organise a contest. It is getting quite late in the year so the Grand Final might have to wait until after Christmas and New Year but let’s see how things go. I will probably make it a more stripped down version to make it more manageable to organise but I think having the contest at all is more important. Also I think I’d rather make this the Annual edition since we did not have an Annual contest this year and I think it would be nice to keep that tradition alive. The Open Contest allows us to pick songs from almost any period so there will always be a chance to showcase those songs any year. But for Annuals, it has to be songs released in the last 12 months and those songs haven’t had a contest since the 2024 Annual so I think it’s better to host the 2025 Annual now and then figure out where things go from there.

Hi everyone, I’m currently traveling in Malaysia but will return next week. As I stated to Sindo recently, I had some mixed feelings about TISC lately. In the last few editions it saw interest go down considerably and I guess with that, it impacted my motivation as it does take a lot of effort and dedication to keep it running. But of course you all know I love TISC and I have poured a lot of time and energy into it over the years. So I may be prepared to organise it myself later this year. I’ll wait until I am home next week before letting you know. Thanks to all those who have continued to stay engaged over the years, I appreciate the support.

Rhys McClenaghan underwent shoulder surgery this week and will miss the world championships in Jakarta later this season

Ben Healy first Irish rider since Stephen Roche in 1987 to wear the Yellow Jersey

So the projections before the championships were pretty spot on in the overall standings.

Looks like it’s going to be a 5th place finish for Ireland in Division 2. Despite some less than competent performances along the way, it’s about as much as we could expect this year.

Those Austrian male steeplechasers never fail to make some drama . Gunther Weidlinger says hello!

Results show as official now with no DQ. I didn’t catch the changeover you mentioned but Olatunde on the last wasn’t going to be DQd for his lane infringement as it was on the straight and no one was near him. I’m not too worried about the points as we are going to finish around 5th-7th but would be a shame to lose the NR so I’m glad for that

Yeah time to give up completely on Ireland. Sophie O’Sullivan now completely flopping too. Beyond belief at this point what is going on lol. See you in 4 years time after we hopefully get promoted again

9th for Sleeman. No comment