[OlympicsFan 783]

The course was dead after the first 5 or 10 guys. Nice result for Jacquelin, don’t see how he could equal the Norwegians with fair conditions though. Next year the fight for the blue jersey should be interesting. Perrot, Wright and multiple Norwegians should deliver an interesting fight. From a German perspective I hope that Kaiser, Kesper and Pfund will get the spots of Doll, Rees and Strelow/Horn. No point in dragging average talents along until they are 30 years old. 

[OlympicsFan 783]

7 hours ago, AsensioWillemsen said:

Hope to see something else over France and Norway the next few days

I think their superior material makes it very difficult for other nations to compete. German men have been much better than french men all season long, but suddenly the french men have faster skiing times. I think by 2026 the picture will be different, especially on the women's side. With world championships taking place every year, the value of a world title is pretty low.

[OlympicsFan 783]

2 hours ago, SalamAkhi said:

Or each progression has its own rhythm. In the very next post you're displaying Riethmüller as "very promising". You'd have called him a complete bust, a waste of talent, a product of German auto-destruction factory a year or so ago when he seemed to have lost his way

1) What exactly is the point of your comment? You can't expect me to lead a discussion in good faith with you after you come in putting words in my mouth in order to frame me. With this childish behavior you shouldn't bother to answer me in the future.

2) Your argument about Grotian obviously doesn't make sense. Grotian at 19 is now slower than she was last year with 18, this isn't "developing at different speeds" it is "regressing", which absoutely shouldn't be seen as normal for someone of her age.

 

February 28th, 2021

Edited January 10 by OlympicsFan

[OlympicsFan 783]

Crazy how much depth Norway has on the men's side. I think the following guys from IBU cup could all immidiately fight for the top 10 at world cup level:

Frey (born 2003)

Nevland (born 2001)

Uldal (born 2001)

Oeverby (born 2000)

Botn (born 1999)

Soerum (born 1998)

 

It will be really difficult for their younger guys (who currently compete in the junior cup) to even make it to the IBU cup.

 

Riethmüller (born 1999) from Germany and Müllauer (born 2003) from Austria are also very promising. Hopefully they will soon get a chance.

 

[OlympicsFan 783]

Absolutely shocked by Grotian's development. Not sure what happened during the summer, but her off-season must have been horrible. She can't even dominate at IBU cup level. Normally she should completely destroy a mediocre talent like Ida Lien.

 

Hopefully Tannheimer will do better at world cup level than Grotian.

 

For the next world cup station i would like the following german teams:

Women: Preuß, Hettich-Walz, Tannheimer, 3 out of Kebinger/Voigt/Schneider/Grotian

Men: Doll, Nawrath, Horn, Kühn, Riethmüller, Fratzscher/Kaiser

[OlympicsFan 783]

10 minutes ago, Swewi said:

Sweden (without Hanna Öberg) and Germany almost perfect relays, still beaten by France (without Chevalier Bouchet)

 

But most chocking - Norway 10th!

Most chocking or most shocking?

Germany also competed without Voigt + this week will show if Hettich-Walz is really better than Tannheimer.

[OlympicsFan 783]

Complete domination by Norway once again, their skiing speed is just superior. Even someone like Botn can come out of nowhere and put up the fastest skiing time right after moving up from the IBU Cup. With the abundance of talent in cross-country skiing i don't really see an end to their domination. I guess all biathlon fans should be thankful that FIS doesn't reduce the number of norwegians that are allowed to compete in the cross-country skiing world cup, otherwise their dominance in biathlon would probably become even more absurd. I wonder what would happen if countries like France, Sweden or Germany would completely focus on biathlon and give up on their men's cross-country skiing, maybe then the norwegian dominance in biathlon could be broken.

[OlympicsFan 783]

Is there a reason why the world championships "have to" take place "in the middle" of the season? Why can't the world championships be the last competition of the season?

 

Also: For me Antholz or Hochfilzen are much better stages than Oberhof (Oberhof usually doesn't really feel like a "natural" place to host a winter sport competition), so personally i would have no problem if IBU would get rid of at least one german stage, but i absolutely don't see them doing that, given that Germany is the biggest market. Maybe climate change will make it impossible to host those competitions in Germany in the future, so IBU will have no choice. Personally i think that it is borderline insane to continually host winter sport competitions in places without natural snow.

Edited January 6 by OlympicsFan

[OlympicsFan 783]

12 hours ago, Olympian1010 said:

I’ve said it before, but if an IF’s main competition tour is only going to be in one continent (Europe or Asia in most cases), then they shouldn’t be allowed to use the term “World Cup.”

 

European teams/athletes/fans always complain about competitions outside Europe, but just imagine how athletes from Pan America, Africa, Asia, or Oceania feel.

You can have that opinion, but your opinion doesn't really make sense. Biathlon isn't really a thing outside of Europe, so the best athletes are all european and pretty much only european fans care about biathlon. "World cup" doesn't have to stand for "All over the world cup", it can stand for "Best in the world cup" and that is exactly what it is. The only plausible reason to host world cups outside of Europe would be to try establish the sport in countries like China, USA or Canada, but if that isn't really a realistic goal (because biathlon never will be a thing in Canada/USA/China), then it wouldn't be in anyone's best interest to host world cups outside of Europe. Athletes from Pan America, Africa, Asia and Oceania are irrelevant in biathlon and i doubt that they will ever be relevant, so they don't really matter. Fairness isn't a relevant category. If hosting world cups outside of Europe is a bad business decision, then they shouldn't host world cups outside of Europe.

[OlympicsFan 783]

Number of individual world cup podiums (world championships included) for the german team:

2019/2020: 14

2020/2021: 13

2021/2022: 14

2022/2023: 12

2023/2024 with 32 races left: 12

 

[OlympicsFan 783]

On 1/4/2024 at 6:11 PM, Grassmarket said:

 TV €€€€€€€€.  But you are correct, once in every five years it’s great, other times problems problems problems.

Stupid take obviously. Germany is the biggest market for biathlon, so getting rid of a german world cup stage would be a clear sign of mental retardation. The beginning of January isn't the right time for Oberhof though, it should host a world cup at the end of January or beginning of February. Sadly there aren't many places left with guaranteed snow at this time of the year. Canada, the US and Japan are irrelevant in biathlon + the problem with travelling. Russia isn't an option for obvious reasons and a country like Kazakhstan also isn't really an option. Maybe they should (have less world cup stages and) don't go to central Europe until the end of January, only Finland/Sweden/Norway before that. Maybe something like:

December: Östersund + Trondheim (not sure if they have a venue)

January: Oslo + KontiolahtIi + Antholz + Annecy

February: Oberhof + Ruhpolding + Nove Mesto

March: World championships (Hochfilzen, Lenzerheide, Pokljuka)

[OlympicsFan 783]

31 minutes ago, Federer91 said:

Looks like Germany have found their rhythm again, at least in biathlon and ski-jumping, at the start of this season. Very strong performance from their whole teams.

 

On the other side, team Norge started a bit so-so. JTB with 2 misses would have easily won last season, while Laegreid and Christiansen would have been top 10. We shall see, if the new ski rules are being a factor. The women did better, given that most of them are newer names, with the exception of Tandrevold of course. 

Good to see, but still way too early for conclusions. So far it looks as if it might have something to do with the material in both biathlon (fluor ban) and ski jumping (3D measuring). On the other hand it doesn't look very good in cross-country skiing and nordic combined.

 

To put today's biathlon results into perspective:

Concerning the men's result:

Individual World Cup wins during the last season: 1
Individual World Cup podiums during the last season: 5
Individual World Cup podiums during the last season if we exclude Benedikt Doll: 2
Last time that German athletes finished first and second: January 8th 2017
Last time that two German athletes made the podium: March 24th 2019

 

Concerning the women's result:
Individual World Cup podiums during the last season: 7
Individual World Cup podiums during the last season if we exclude Denise Herrmann: 0
Last time that two German athletes made the podium: March 13th 2020

 

Overall:
Last time German athletes finished first and second (male or female): March 13th 2020

 

 

[OlympicsFan 783]

1 hour ago, Orangehair43 said:

Women’s biathlon is not in a great shape really with so many retiring and not many younger names coming through. 

I think women's biathlon has less depth than in past year (Which had to be expected given all the developments concerning athletes from Russia/Belarus/Ukraine), but there are a lot of younger athletes coming through and the average age of the top 20 for example is clearly lower than it was 5 years ago. Simon, Vitozzi, E. Öberg, H. Öberg, Tandrevold, Davidova, Braisaz, Jeanmonnot, Voigt, Kebinger, Chevalier, Colombo, Chauveau are all young enough to go at least until 2026 and then you have younger talents like Grotian, Kirkeeide, Richard, Vorobnikova and also Lampic coming through. Would be interesting to hear your prediction for who will finish top 10 in the standings next year (Given that you, if i understood you correctly, don't seem to think that there will be much movement at the top)?

[OlympicsFan 783]

25 minutes ago, FireRun said:

Next season is going to be interesting. I wonder how Tandervold will handle being the leader of the Norwegian team. Who will lead Germany in the standings. Will Oebergs finally win the overall globe. Will Soukalova return (there were hints that she might, Czechs are hosting the world championship after all). Will Anamarija Lampič get better at shooting? And there's loads more questions. Exciting season ahead for sure. 

Interesting comparison between Lampic and Herrmann:

Lampic finished 48th in the standings this season with 91 points in 7 races (13 points/race). Herrmann also finished 48th in her first world cup season (2016/2017, 115 points in 9 races -> 12.8 points/race). Lampic twice finished 5th in the sprint this season. Herrmann had an 18th place as her best result in her first world cup season. Lampic was roughly half a year younger than Herrmann was during her first season. In her second season Herrmann finished 12th in the world cup standings and had her first two world cup wins.

[OlympicsFan 783]

3 hours ago, Monzanator said:

Final World Cup standings for women:

 

1. Simon 1093

2. Wierer 911

3. Vittozzi 882

4. Herrmann-Wick 874

5. E. Oeberg 764

6. Tandrevold 731

7. H. Oeberg 710

8. Chevalier-Bouchet 670

9. Davidova 668

10. Hauser 604

...

51. Żuk 82

64. Jakieła 36

77. Mąka 15

 

Roiseland finished 15th with 502 points despite only competing in 11 individual races. If she would have competed in all races while maintaining the same point average, she would have finished second in the standings. Kebinger finished 25th with 249 points despite only competing in 8 individual races. If she would have competed in all races while maintaining the same point average, she would finished 10th (or 11th if Marte would have competed in all races) in the standings.

[OlympicsFan 783]

Good lesson for Grotian today. I think starting that late didn't help her + she probably didn't have great material + all the traveling probably didn't help either, but she saw that she still has ways to go. I think even at her peak she probably would have been 40-50 seconds behind the best. She made a big step forward from last season to this season. If she does that again before the start of the next season, she will hopefully be able to regularly fight for top 10 spots. Kebinger, Schneider, Preuß, Voigt are all unpredictable at this point. Somehow Germany always has the problem of a "youngish" athlete improving one year and then regressing the next year. For example i still didn't hear any explanation for what happened to Voigt this season. Schneider and Kebinger improved this season, but i wouldn't bet on them continuing to improve next season. I fear that Grotian might need to carry the german team already from next season onwards. Grotian and Kirkeeide are probably the most interesting talents going into next season. The progression of Vorobnikova and the young french women will also be interesting to follow.

Edited March 18, 2023 by OlympicsFan

[OlympicsFan 783]

Another proof that most sport officials are completely braindead. They could have scheduled this race for earlier this day or they could have scheduled both sprints for yesterday, but instead they created a schedule that only would have worked if no race/only men's sprint had to be delayed. I guess just canceling women's pursuit/mass start doesn't matter, because it only hurts the athletes. The same has happened in ski jumping many times before. They schedule a competition as late as possible and then they are shocked when they have to cancel it because they can't postpone it. At the 2018 olympics one of the ski jumping competitions finished after midnight ...

[OlympicsFan 783]

2 hours ago, JonPhi said:

Going to be a very very long Women's Sprint tomorrow, at least until Bib 90

https://ibu.blob.core.windows.net/docs/2223/BT/SWRL/CP09/SWSP/C51A_v1.pdf

Excited to see what Grotian can do. She probably won't be at her best after all the traveling + focusing on the junior world championships, but let's see.

[OlympicsFan 783]

The norwegian men make biathlon/cross-country skiing incredibly boring. If FIS/IBU would be interested in a good product, they would limit their spots + introduce a rule that everyone has to use the same material.

[OlympicsFan 783]

Now that Eckhoff (29 wins, 5th all-time), Roiseland (19 wins, 14th all-time) and Hermann (12 wins, 21st all-time) have retired, the currently active women with the most wins are Wierer (16 wins, 17th all-time), H. Öberg (10 wins, 25th all-time) and Simon (8 wins, 29th all-time). Pretty crazy that there are only 2 women with at least 10 world cup wins. Also for reference: Boe had 16 wins just this season!

Forsberg, despite her short career, has the record with "only" 42 wins. Neuner, despite retiring only 1 month after turning 25, is second with 34 wins. There are 4 men with more than 42 wins. If someone like E. Öberg would become more consistent and compete into her thirties, she could completely smash Forsberg's record.

[OlympicsFan 783]

1 hour ago, FireRun said:

With Tiril and Marte done, Norway loses are big. But somehow I still think other nations are too far back to mount a serious challenge their top 5 spot. Next year should still be the usual Sweden, France, Italy, Germany, Norway fight for the top spots.

You are probably right. Of course Belarus/Russia could challenge them, but i don't think those nations will be allowed to come back next season. In the women's nations cup the point difference between France in first (7713) and Italy in fifth (7210) is smaller than difference between Italy and Switzerland (6435) in 6th. Czech Republic/Ukraine/Belarus/Russia all used to be very competitive. In 2020/2021 Belarus/Russia/Ukraine were 5th/6th/7th in the nations cup and the Czech Republic was 5th in the nations cup last season. I think only the Czech Republic could break into the top 5, probably by replacing Norway/Germany. Sweden/France/Italy (unless Wierer retires) all have multiple athletes who can make the podium. Norway has a better number 1 option (Tandrevold) than Germany, but Germany probably has better depth/potential. I am not sure if Slovenia could be a surprise challenger, even Lampic breaking through might not be enough.

[OlympicsFan 783]

1 hour ago, JonPhi said:

Both Chevalier‘s also might end their career, especially Anais.

Will be interesting to see how all the teams look at the start of next season. Germany already lost Hermann and Hinz, maybe Preuß will follow. Kebinger, Voigt, Schneider and Grotian should be pretty safe. The 2 other spots should be between Hettich, Frühwirth, Spark, maybe Preuß and hopefully Tannheimer.

Norway: Hopefully Eckhoff, Tandrevold, Kirkeeide, Kalkenberg, ?, ?

Sweden: E. Öberg, H. Öberg, Persson, Brorsson, Magnusson, Skottheim?

Italy: Wierer, Vitozzi, Auchentaller, Passler, Comola, Carrara

France: Simon, Jeanmonnot, Chevalier, Chevalier-Bouchet, Colombo, Chauveau/Richard/Bondoux

 

I think France is the only nation with at least 6 women who could regularly fight for the top 10. It looks as if all nations except France and Sweden might have trouble even finding 4 solid athletes.
 

[OlympicsFan 783]

36 minutes ago, IoNuTzZ said:

And the second one is Dennise Hermann  

Eckhoff and Wierer might follow. Should be difficult for Germany/Norway to challenge France/Sweden in the near future. I think France and Sweden will be tier 1, while Norway, Germany, Italy and the Czech Republic will be tier 2.

[OlympicsFan 783]

23 hours ago, JonPhi said:

There is not much left of Johannes Luka's pre-season announcement that they are the strongest women's team in the World Cup. With the exception of Hanna Oeberg, they have completely lost their form.

They won 6 medals at the world championships this year, twice as many as the second best nation (Germany) and as many as Germany, Norway and France combined. They were also the only nation with more than one individual medalist and they did that all with their (potentially) best athlete (Elvira Öberg) barely contributing anything. Not sure if they were/are the best nation in the world cup, but they were lightyears ahead of every other nation at this season's most important competition.

 

Something else that can't be missed when looking at past results:

The "absence" of Russia/Austria on the men's side and Russia/Ukraine on the women's side is clearly hurting the depth/competitiveness.

Edited March 12, 2023 by OlympicsFan

[OlympicsFan 783]

I believe that Germany set an all-time record by winning 9 gold medals, no nation ever won more than 8 golds at a single edition. The surprising thing is that it could/should have been even more golds for Germany. All of their golds, except for that of Menz in men’s junior individual, were pretty much uncontested + they could/should have won 4 more golds in men’s youth relay/men’s junior relay/mixed youth relay and women’s junior individual (given Grotian‘s overall dominance). 12 golds absolutely would have been achievable. Nevertheless great results for Germany, although the men still seem to be lightyears behind Norway (in terms of skiing speed).

Edited March 12, 2023 by OlympicsFan