Your own Winter Olympic Games Programme

[JoshMartini007 2,861]

I've always been a big supporter of bringing indoor sports to the Winter Olympics. Handball's World Championship is held in January (Men) and December (Women) so it's not like the athletes aren't ready to compete in February.

[De_Gambassi 1,369]

Il y a 15 heures , JoshMartini007 a déclaré:

I've always been a big supporter of bringing indoor sports to the Winter Olympics. Handball's World Championship is held in January (Men) and December (Women) so it's not like the athletes aren't ready to compete in February.

 

I think preserving the integrity and identity of the Winter Olympics is important. Besides, I don't see how expanding the Winter Games will help with the allready very critical lack of bidding cities,

 

If moving around some summer sports is an option, I'd very much favor the introduction of a third season; the Fall Indoor Games or something. We would have 16 months between each Olympics then (Summer -> Winter -> Fall).

[Quasit 955]

Here's my take on the Winter Games but take that as you will because I'm not the biggest winter sports enthusiast for reasons. Some users have pointed out before how problematic it is for nations besides those 25-30 that are usually winning medals at the Winter Games (we need "Desert Games" for compensation!).

 

My programme is more leaning towards the "utopic" side but you will really see that when I have a take on the Summer Games programme.

 

In general...

• ... I'm all in for more events.
• ... I remember somebody's post long ago where they said that "individual events are for strong athletes and team events are for strong nations" which makes a lot of sense to me. The strongest nation doesn't necessarily have the strongest athlete. So I support the idea of a team event in every sport (there are exceptions, of course).
• ... I don't have problems with Mixed events either. Regard it as an "overall event".
• ... I don't care whether a sport/event is TV-friendly or not. Athletes have to compete, not the general audience.
• ... winter sports will always be defined as a sport on ice or snow, so no indoor sports like Handball to the programme. It's a summer sport.
• ... I welcome the raise of total athletes per Games. I know there have to be limits though.
• ... I wouldn't really miss Winter Games.
• ... if you dislike my programme, that's fine, but if you complain about it without having posted your own here, go ahead and make your own.

Alpine Skiing [12]

• Slalom (m/w)
• Giant Slalom (m/w)
• Super-G (m/w)
• Downhill (m/w)
• Combined (m/w)
• Team Event (m/w)

Introduction of a Team Event for both genders and a revised one as the current team event is too heavy on Slalom. It should be 2x slalom + 2x speed. A "Combined" course can be prepared for that and both genders have enough athletes for them to have that separate event.

No parallel event, to me the current one looks like a competition of luck.

 

Alpine Skiing +1

 

Biathlon [11]

• Sprint (m/w)
• Pursuit (m/w); reworked
• Individual (m/w)
• Mass Start (m/w)
• Team Relay (m/w/mixed)

The concept of a pursuit based on results of a previous event is a bit strange to me so two ideas for a revision.

1. A qualification event in which athletes shoot 50 (25+25) targets and based on every miss, there will be a penalty of 8 seconds (up to debate) for the start. So for example, there is a lone athlete with 50/50 hits, they will start the race and somebody with 42/50 hits will start 1 minute and 4 seconds (8x8=64) behind the leader. The rest will be the same: 60 will qualify (plus or minus, if for example 64 athletes have 38/50 hits and more), penalty start, 4 shootings and first one to finish will be the winner. 
2. The upcoming Super Sprint event may serve as the qualification for the Pursuit.

Biathlon ± 0

 

Bobsleigh [4]

• Two-man/woman (m/w)
• Four-man/woman (m/w)

Shouldn't be a problem to introduce a Four-woman event. No monobob event needed, aside from Youth Games. If Jamaica has a Two-woman/Four-man bob, so can, in theory, every powerhouse in winter sports. And seriously, why don't Nordic nations care about sliding sports?

 

Bobsleigh +1

 

Cross-Country Skiing [15]

• 15/10km Freestyle - interval start (m/w)
• 30/15km Skiathlon - mass start (m/w)
• 50/30km Classical - interval start (m/w)
• 4x10/5km Relay (m/w/mixed)
• 100m (m/w)
• Individual Sprint (m/w)
• Team Sprint (m/w)

The perfect sport to have a mixed relay in (2x5km + 2x10km), interesting it hasn't already been planned but I guess Biathlon is more popular than Cross-Country.

I also specified that the short freestyle distance and especially the longest distance, which should be run in Classical style, should have interval starts.

Also, introduction of the 100m. No hipster event such as the Cross. We have Ski Cross, I don't see the point of CC Cross.

 

Cross-Country Skiing +3

 

Curling [3]

• Tournament (m/w)
• Mixed Doubles (mixed)

No changes here. If we have a Doubles event, then mixed is a good way to go.

 

Curling ± 0

 

Figure Skating [5]

• Singles (m/w)
• Pairs (mixed)
• Ice Dancing (mixed)
• Team Event (mixed)

Looks fine to me as well, for a layman when it comes to Figure Skating.

 

Figure Skating ± 0

 

Freestyle Skiing [16]

• Aerials (m/w)
• Mixed Team Aerials (mixed)
• Moguls (m/w)
• Dual Moguls (m/w)
• Halfpipe (m/w)
• Mixed Team Halfpipe (mixed)
• Slopestyle (m/w)
• Ski Cross (m/w)
• Ski Ballet (m/w)

No questions about Dual Moguls, should be in. Ski Ballet seems to have a passionate fanbase, why not. Not easy to create team events in this sport but we have Mixed Team Aerials in the World Cup already and I can also picture one for the Halfpipe. With the addition of Dual Moguls, another (team) event for them isn't necessary.

 

Freestyle Skiing +6

 

Ice Hockey [4]

• Tournament (m/w)
• Skills Challenge (m/w)

This sport is popular enough to have that Skills Challenge in the programme. It's good for good players from weaker nations too, no question about that.

 

Ice Hockey +2

 

Luge [6]

• Singles (m/w)
• Doubles (open)
• Team Relay (mixed)
• Natural Track Singles (m/w)
• Natural Track Team Relay (mixed)

The first discipline I would axe is Doubles in Luge. Have you ever seen two tennis players playing, holding the same racket? Two fencers holding the same weapon? That's how ridiculous Luge Doubles appears to me. Out.

Don't despair Luge fans (hewoodu), Natural Track is in with the same programme as the artificial track has.

 

Luge +2

 

Nordic Combined [6]

• Individual Normal Hill/7,5km (w)
• Individual Large Hill/10km (m)
• 10km Mass Start/Normal Hill (w)
• 15km Mass Start/Large Hill (m)
• Team Normal Hill/4x5km Relay (w)
• Team Large Hill/4x5km Relay (m)

The current programme makes no sense. Why is there the need of having the same men's event (10km), with the only difference being the Ski Jumping part held on Normal or Large Hill? At least have Normal Hill and a 5km or 7,5km run, making it more sprint-like, but anyway, mine is greatly revised. In an ideal world of sports, women have caught up with NC. They will have Normal Hill events whereas the men will jump from the Large Hill.

As I said, 10km/Normal and 10km/Large is stupid, let's have two very different events in which you start skiing first, the Mass Start, and Ski Jumping will be the second discipline. It was a World Cup event too, not long ago. There you go, looks much better now and I'm being very generous with NC given that nobody really cares about it these days, not even Norway, and we have ... the results we have.

 

Nordic Combined +3

 

Short Track Speed Skating [10]

• 500m (m/w)
• 1000m (m/w)
• 1500m (m/w)
• 3000m (m/w)
• 5000m/3000m Relay (m/w)

The compulsory addition of the 3000m.

 

Short Track Speed Skating +2

 

Skeleton [2]

• Singles (m/w)

No changes here, doesn't really deserve a team event, in my opinion.

 

Skeleton ± 0

 

Ski Jumping [6]

• Normal Hill (m/w)
• Large Hill (m)
• Normal Hill Team (w)
• Large Hill Team (m)
• Mixed Normal Hill Team (mixed)

At first I was thinking adding only the Women's Normal ill Team would suffice but Nordic Combined having more events than Ski Jumping doesn't sound right, so mixed is in as well.

 

Ski Jumping +2

 

Snowboarding [15]

• Halfpipe (m/w)
• Mixed Team Halfpipe (mixed)
• Slopestyle (m/w)
• Big Air (m/w)
• Team Big Air (m/w)
• Parallel Giant Slalom (m/w)
• Snowboard Cross (m/w)
• Snowboard Cross Team (m/w)

I don't see the difference between Parallel Slalom and Parallel Giant Slalom so I won't have both.

Team events are added; Big Air had such high starter fields in both genders so that it justifies a team event for both. We can discuss a Team Halfpipe for both too, but then mixed will have to go again.

 

Snowboarding +5

 

Speed Skating [14]

• 500m (m/w)
• 1000m (m/w)
• 1500m (m/w)
• 3000m (w)
• 5000m (m/w)
• 10,000m (m)
• Mass Start (m/w)
• Team Pursuit (m/w)

Personally, I think it looks good. No need for a Team Sprint. Only the Mass Start will have to be revised a bit (made longer).

 

Speed Skating ± 0

 

Additional Sport #1 - Ski Orienteering [6]

• Long Distance (m/w)
• Sprint Distance (m/w)
• Team Relay (m/w)

Of course if we talk about additions to the Winter Games programme, we have to consider Ski Orienteering. Say hello to more Swedish medals.

 

Ski Orienteering +6

 

Additional Sport #2 - Cyclo-Cross [2]

• Cyclo-Cross Race (m/w)

But only if it is held on snowy surface.

 

Cyclo-Cross +2

 

Additional Sport #3 - Telemark Skiing [2]

• Sprint (m/w)

I'm not getting it but I don't want to ignore it either. I don't see the difference between Sprint and Classic and in general, I don't like the parallel bs but I'm more inclined to add Parallel to my programme over Classical if somebody can explain these events to me.

 

Telemark Skiing +2

 

Additional Sport #4 - Snowshoeing [2]

• 10km (m/w)

Yes. Definitely yes.

 

Snowshoeing +2

 

Additional Sport #5 - Bandy [2]

• Tournament (m/w)

Should be a lock as well.

 

Bandy +2

 

Additional Sport #6 - Ski Mountaineering [4]

• Individual (m/w)
• Relay (m/w)

Should be a lock as well.

 

Ski Mountaineering +4

 

Total medel events: 147 in 21 sports

Total athletes: more than currently

Days of competition: 18 (including Day -1 and Day 0 before the Opening Ceremony)

Edited January 11, 2018 by Quasit

[Dmitry 93]

On 10.01.2018 at 17:23, thiago_simoes said:

 

Sure, I know. Winter time in Rio is like summer time in a number of countries. Maybe some indoor sport, I guess? I know this sounds weird, maybe ridiculous, but take handball or volleyball for example: does it really matter if it's summer or winter when the sport is being contested? They play it indoors, so the weather makes no difference at all. Why do these sports have to be contested at the Summer Olympics, though? But I now this sounds crazy for some people, so I will not take this any further. 

And I don't really follow winter sports, but I'm sure that there must be something, anything, that does not heavily rely on ice or snow. If all winter sports have to depend on ice or snow, a lot of nations would be excluded, and isn't it the purpose of the Olympic Games to integrate people from all over the planet?

In my opinion ice and snow are the only things which still create difference and identity for Winter Olympics vs. just Olympics. If we will take voleyball, handball, judo or any other indoor sport to the winter games it will be just Olympics and Olympics every two year but maybe with full different programs.

Edited January 13, 2018 by Dmitry

[phelps 8,695]

23 hours ago, De_Gambassi said:

 

I think preserving the integrity and identity of the Winter Olympics is important. Besides, I don't see how expanding the Winter Games will help with the allready very critical lack of bidding cities,

 

perfect point

 

in this part of the World, where the Olympic Games have been thought and created, history and tradition mean Winter = Snow & Ice

 

so, imho the Winter Olympic Games must only include disciplines played on those 2 "elements"...

[phelps 8,695]

my 2 cents...

 

Alpine Skiing [10]

• Slalom (m/w)
• Giant Slalom (m/w)
• Super-G (m/w)
• Downhill (m/w)
• Combined (m/w)
• Team Event (mixed)
• Parallel Slalom (m/w)

Biathlon [10]

• Sprint (m/w)
• Pursuit (m/w)
• Individual (m/w)
• Mass Start (m/w)
• Team Relay (m/w/mixed)

Bobsleigh [3]

• Two-man/woman (m/w)
• Four-man (m)

Cross-Country Skiing [12]

• 15/10km Freestyle (m/w)
• 15/10km Skiathlon (m/w)
• 30/15km Skiathlon (m/w)
• 30/15km Freestyle (m/w)...but only with Interval Starts, since those mass start races have become too tactical and are generally exciting only in the last couple of kms...
• 50/30km Classical (m/w)...but, once again, Interval Starts only
• 4x10/5km Relay (m/w)
• Individual Sprint (m/w)...but it should be a real "Sprint"...so, always only 1000m long and always held with Freestyle technique...
• Team Sprint (m/w)...but with different format (4 athletes per team, no more than 2 legs for each athlete, 1000m legs and again Freestyle only and always)...

Curling [2]

• Tournament (m/w)
• Mixed Doubles (mixed)

Figure Skating [3]

• Singles (m/w)
• Pairs (mixed)
• Ice Dancing (mixed)
• Team Event (mixed)

Freestyle Skiing [2]

• Aerials (m/w)
• Moguls (m/w)
• Halfpipe (m/w)
• Slopestyle (m/w)
• Ski Cross (m/w)

Notes: stop trying to make the Olympics the new X-Games...

 

Ice Hockey [2]

• Tournament (m/w)

Luge [4]

• Singles (m/w)
• Doubles (open, m/w)...provided a decent development of the women's game, of course (but since this is just a fantasy effort, we can take it for "granted", I guess)...
• Team Relay (mixed)

Nordic Combined [6]

• Individual Normal Hill/10km (m/w)
• Individual Large Hill/10km (m)
• Individual Large Hill/15km (m/w)
• Team Large Hill/4x5km Relay (m/w)

Notes: always assuming ideal women's participation...

 

Short Track Speed Skating [8]

• 500m (m/w)
• 1000m (m/w)
• 1500m (m/w)
• 5000m/3000m Relay (m/w)

Skeleton [2]

• Singles (m/w)

Ski Jumping [5]

• Normal Hill (m/w)
• Large Hill (m/w)
• Large Hill Team (m/w)
• Ski Flying (m)

Snowboarding [6]

• Halfpipe (m/w)*
• Slopestyle (m/w)*
• Big Air (m/w)*
• Parallel Giant Slalom (m/w)
• Giant Slalom (m/w)...like the Alpine Skiing one, Individual Runs, 2 Run-competition...as it was in the early days of the Games...
• Parallel Slalom (m/w)
• Snowboard Cross (m/w)

Notes: * = see the Freestyle considerations...

 

Speed Skating [14]

• 500m (m/w)
• 1000m (m/w)
• 1500m (m/w)
• 3000m (w)
• 5000m (m/w)
• 10,000m (m/w)...time to make men and women's competitions the same thing...
• Mass Start (m/w)...but only if they make it a serious event, like the Dutch Marathon Cup events (50km race...and no silly and useless intermediate sprints)...
• Team Pursuit (m/w)...with a slight change of format...4 athletes per team and over the 4000m distance..basically the same thing as the Team Pursuit of Track Cycling...

Additional Sport - Ski Orienteering [6]

• Individual Sprint Race (m/w)
• Individual Race, Long Distance (m/w)
• Team Relay (3 x the Sprint Race distance, m/w)

 

Additional Sport - Natural Track Luge [4]

• Singles (m/w)
• Doubles (m/w)

 

Total medal events: 99 in 17 sports

Total athletes: surely more than now...

Days of competition: 17 (including Day 0 before the Opening Ceremony)

Edited January 12, 2018 by phelps

[De_Gambassi 1,369]

il y a 29 minutes, phelps a déclaré:

Snowboarding [6]

• Parallel Giant Slalom (m/w)

• Giant Slalom (m/w)...like the Alpine Skiing one, Individual Runs, 2 Run-competition...as it was in the early days of the Games...
• Parallel Slalom (m/w)

 

 

Sur 08/01/2018 at 21:26 , De_Gambassi a déclaré:

Snowboarding [10 -> 13]

• Parallel Giant Slalom (m/w)

• Giant Slalom (like in not Parralel Giant slalom) (m/w)
• Parralel Slalom (m/w)

 

 

Edited January 12, 2018 by De_Gambassi

[thiago_simoes 1,458]

14 horas atrás, phelps disse:

 

perfect point

 

in this part of the World, where the Olympic Games have been thought and created, history and tradition mean Winter = Snow & Ice

 

so, imho the Winter Olympic Games must only include disciplines played on those 2 "elements"...

 

Oh. My. God. This only proves my point: like I said before, it is the Olympic Games for the Northern hemisphere with Australia and New Zealand as glorified guests. 

In fact, the very first edition of the Winter Olympics in 1924 had no nations from Asia, Oceania, Africa and South America. Now, the Olympic movement aims for integration of all nations (not only nations from Europe). Considering this very important piece of information, the whole idea of winter sports being contested as part of the Olympic Games is a huge fallacy, in my opinion. The Olympic Games are supposed to integrate the whole globe, and the Winter Olympics look like a big, well-sustained and shameless lie, if you ask me. How can you seriously consider integration when 1 billion people from Africa, for example, are excluded when it comes to the Winter Olympics, for very obvious reasons? Not to mention large chunks of South America, Asia and Oceania.
 

In my opinion, in order to keep things interesting for countries all around the globe, we need new ways to expand the program and give fair chances to other nations. As it is, you can call the event "international festival" or whatever you want, but when it comes to providing integration -- a very important point of the whole idea behind the Olympic Games -- it falls short. Why call it Olympics, then?

[De_Gambassi 1,369]

Il y a 8 heures , thiago_simoes a déclaré:

 

Oh. My. God. This only proves my point: like I said before, it is the Olympic Games for the Northern hemisphere with Australia and New Zealand as glorified guests. 

In fact, the very first edition of the Winter Olympics in 1924 had no nations from Asia, Oceania, Africa and South America. Now, the Olympic movement aims for integration of all nations (not only nations from Europe). Considering this very important piece of information, the whole idea of winter sports being contested as part of the Olympic Games is a huge fallacy, in my opinion. The Olympic Games are supposed to integrate the whole globe, and the Winter Olympics look like a big, well-sustained and shameless lie, if you ask me. How can you seriously consider integration when 1 billion people from Africa, for example, are excluded when it comes to the Winter Olympics, for very obvious reasons? Not to mention large chunks of South America, Asia and Oceania.
 

In my opinion, in order to keep things interesting for countries all around the globe, we need new ways to expand the program and give fair chances to other nations. As it is, you can call the event "international festival" or whatever you want, but when it comes to providing integration -- a very important point of the whole idea behind the Olympic Games -- it falls short. Why call it Olympics, then?

 

Because the IOC runs it... The IOC don't owe you (or your country(ies)) anything. If you don't like it, don't watch it. That's really that simple.

 

Regarding what top ranks IOC members might or might not say about global integration. You should take them for what they are: politician talks. And who is listening to politicians ?

 

Besides, if they were doing doing what you're suggesting, then we'd have the World Games, a collection of random B sport thant didn't make the - "real" - Olympics. Not something the IOC is looking for.

 

And yes, the Olympics is a westerner thing. Borrn and breed here. No need for fake outragism.

[phelps 8,695]

10 hours ago, thiago_simoes said:

 

Oh. My. God. This only proves my point: like I said before, it is the Olympic Games for the Northern hemisphere with Australia and New Zealand as glorified guests.

 

no, not at all (at least for what's up to me)...

it's the Games for those Countries with enough willingness of developing sports practiced on snow and/or ice...nothing more, nothing less, nothing different...

and, meanwhile I perfectly know the fact that snow sports are not realistic in most Countries of the Southern Emisphere, frankly Ice sports are not just for those Nations with long and cold Winter, they can be played at any latitude (and infrastructure costs for all of them -except for long track speedskating- are not so much more expensive than running a basketball arena or a rugby stadium, just to name a couple)...

moreover, and it's just my opinion (which isn't necessarily to be the most popular and/or a "truth"), I still think that words and ideas mean something according to how they're written...if it's the "Winter (sports) Games", it doesn't make any sense to fill the schedule with sports almost everywhere associated to the Summer season/Summer sports "family"...