Biathlon 2015 - 2016 Discussion Thread

[OlympicsFan 860]

28 minutes ago, De_Gambassi said:

 

A couple of preliminary points:

 

- Could you stop talking to people like they are some retarded children ?

- This is not the place to have this discussion. Our messages should probably be moved to the doping thread.

 

To the point:

 

You are actually completly missing it. I don't deffend these athletes as clean, or don't say France doesn't have a doping problem. What I'm saying is taking these few exemples to conclude than France has a deeper doping problem than neighbouring countries is absurd Because of Baugé no show four years ago or Livio's horse, you can't simply conclude that Mare Dorin is a doper and Laura Dahlmeier is not. It doesn't make any sense. This is not a logical conclusion, but simply prejudice.

 

There are thousands of athlets around the world the caliber of Moulinet, Bigot or Baugé and they all are getting controlled every year, yet, the vast majority of dopers (someone like Cindy Billaud who is an obvious case for exemple) are never getting caught  The efficiency of each doping control is very small. thus, these few exemples, statistically, mean nothing. To conclude that a nation have more of a doping problem than an other one, you will probably need dozens, if not hundreds of similar cases (like in Russia's exemple).

 

We do have a doping problem, Germany, also has one. Everybody does. And there is not anywhere enough evidence to conclude than we have a bigger one than say Germany or UK, or that french biathlon is more proned to doping than german's one.

 

"There are thousands of athlets around the world the caliber of Moulinet, Bigot or Baugé" ...

Are you serious? Bauge is one of the most famous cyclists, there is no way that there are thousands of athletes in the world who are as famous as Bauge.

 

For me the fact that some many top class french athletes have been caught shows that doping is pretty widespread in France and/or that your federation doesnt really know how to do fight doping. Lets assume that french athletes have the same probability of getting caught as german athletes, then why are there many more top class french doping cases?

There are many possible explanations, for example:

1) More top class french athletes are doped

2) There are more top class french athletes

3) French top class athletes are just unlucky to get caught more often

...

For me 1) is the most likely explanation, but of course you could say that its just a coincidence that so many top class french athletes are caught. Lets assume that french/german doped top class athletes have the same probability of getting caught, then of course there is a certain probability that for example 10 top class french athletes are getting caught and in the same time no german top class athletes, but the probability for that is pretty small. The same argument has been used for russian athletes, but at some point people started to see the pattern, instead of just treating every doping case as failure of a single athlete. You can either call it coincidence or you could start to see the system behind it.

 

You could either show me that France doesnt have more top class doping cases than any other western nation or you could give me another good explanation why france has more top class doping cases than other western nations, otherwise i will continue to see a pattern instead of a coincidence behind it in. More doping cases in a certain nation mean that either there is a higher probability that a certain athlete from that nation is doped or that this nation doesnt really fight doping. In both cases i dont see a reason to cheer for athletes from that nation.

 

Edit: I agree that we shouldnt continue with this discussion here and probably most people dont care about this topic, so maybe you could just reply me with a PM?

 

Edited March 10, 2016 by OlympicsFan

[Werloc 3,191]

Well, I had a feeling in my gut that the individual race is going to be where the Austrians shine and I wasn't wrong

[Gianlu33 5,374]

Fourcade wins again! Amazing championship for him

[VolleyRuller96 264]

Total domination by France They basically crushed all other nations 

[hckošice 15,825]

btw Kuzmina finished today 10th in her first race after 2 years pause. not bad at all, (16th running time and 2nd shooting time 0:50!). pity that last target, but well... finally she is back to save our dying winter sport, let´s go save him with completing the golden hattrick in Pyeongchang

 

[De_Gambassi 1,276]

20 minutes ago, VolleyRuller96 said:

Total domination by France They basically crushed all other nations 

 

It's allready our best WC ever. And still 4 races to go 

[Werloc 3,191]

15 minutes ago, hckosice said:

btw Kuzmina finished today 10th in her first race after 2 years pause. not bad at all, (16th running time and 2nd shooting time 0:50!). pity that last target, but well... finally she is back to save our dying winter sport, let´s go save him with completing the golden hattrick in Pyeongchang

 

I don't know. You might not be having the amazing results that you've been hoping for, but from an unbiased perspective, I would say that team Slovakia has matured a lot during those two years and even though Kuzmina was gone, they took a huge step in the right direction as a team. Yes, Jana Gerekova is not as good as she was last season, but Paulina Fialkova has really improved, your men often get into points and almost always in the pursuit races, huge improvement for Kazar and a respectable performance in the European Championships, which were quite solid this year if we look at the competition.

Edited March 10, 2016 by Werloc

[hckošice 15,825]

59 minutes ago, Werloc said:

I don't know. You might not be having the amazing results that you've been hoping for, but from an unbiased perspective, I would say that team Slovakia has matured a lot during those two years and even though Kuzmina was gone, they took a huge step in the right direction as a team. Yes, Jana Gerekova is not as good as she was last season, but Paulina Fialkova has really improved, your men often get into points and almost always in the pursuit races, huge improvement for Kazar and a respectable performance in the European Championships, which were quite solid this year if we look at the competition.

 

yes I dont think we will win any medal at WOG 2018, maybe in womens slalom but we´ll need a perfect day..., but about biathlon probably you are right, medal will be too high this time. in fact I am happy she is back, because we just will need Kuzmina this time mainly for colecting points and qualifying the full team for Pyeongchang. and we will see what will happen, don´t forget that she perform usually quite good at WOG so who know... 

 

Paulína has a amazing season, her careers season. most likely she will never repeat in the future such results as she achieved this year. our biathlon and winter sport (except Ice hockey ofc) is almost dead, theres no money, no infrastructure, no youngs who want do those sports, very few talents, the situation is disastrous. so if we count all results achieved by our few athletes so far in those conditions, yes it´s already a miracle.

 

well, the european championships...this competition is a joke, c´mon we won silver medal in mixed relay. a real sci-fi now you see how bad we are at WCH against real teams. no, I´ll tell you why we had those amazing results at european championships, why all our athletes had ECh from the start of the season this event as their this seasons top priority. our biathlon chiefs were really smart this time, to focus mainly for this event and peaked the shape of athletes for Tyumen to trying to win medals in this event against very poor concurence, but thanks the fact that the competition is called European Championship and we won 2 medals, Paulína and the full 4 members of the mixed relay will receive money from the state and they will be finally able to have a serious and "normal" preparation for the new winter season which will be a Olympic qualifying season.

[juddy96 171]

World Junior champion Eduard Latypov tested positive for meldonium http://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1035223/russian-biathlete-becomes-latest-to-test-positive-for-meldonium

[hckošice 15,825]

Charvatova