[OFF TOPIC] Russia-Ukraine War

[Monzanator 4,453]

Angela Merkel's living legacy. What a pathetic joke she truly was.

 

 

[Grassmarket 3,353]

6 minutes ago, Monzanator said:

Angela Merkel's living legacy. What a pathetic joke she truly was.

 

 

Not so much a joke as an agent, I'm afraid.  As I said the other day, Putin had everything on everyone who had been remotely involved in German politics, East & West, from the 60s to the fall of the Wall.  I'm quite sure that Merkel, like anyone who had a decent career at the mid levels of the SED, had done things that she would not wanted to come into the harsh spotlight of modern opinion.

[Vic Liu 1,671]

7 hours ago, Vektor said:

For us it's not that simple. Orbán is saying that he wants peace and the trade with Russia to continue because that's exactly what his voters want to hear one month before the Hungarian elections. The opposition went full anti-Russian yesterday like most Western politicians and I think they might lose the Hungarian election because of it. There's also a very clear pro-Russia sentiment on social media from conservatives, many Hungarians blame the Americans and NATO for this conflict. 

I think many users don't understand that why some people blame US and NATO for this conflict. I will try to explain from my perspective in a moderate tone. It doesn't mean it's right or it's justified to initiate the war. I hope the war could end immediately and no more death to come. It's just people have different view about how it even began.

 

NATO told Ukraine it could be a member in 2008 and Ukraine began its illusion it literally could become a NATO member ever since. So many years, US and other NATO countries never give clear message to Ukraine but give meaningless verbal support. The point is that it gives Ukraine bravery to counter Russia and even write it inside the constitution to become NATO member which is definitely intolerable for Russia. Without solid and concrete support from west, no post-USSR country should ever try this. US gave Ukraine fake hope, fake courage to provoke Russia instead of itself. US is hiding behind a weak proxy with meaningless support. There are some strategy equilibrium between major powers and have to appreciate each other's bottom line. Anyone who tries to break it has to think twice if I can take the consequences. If USA tells Ukraine clearly that I will not accept you as NATO member and if you have war with Russia I will stand by, I think Ukraine will choose to be like Finland and we will not see the conflict today.

[Monzanator 4,453]

1 minute ago, Vic Liu said:

I think many users don't understand that why some people blame US and NATO for this conflict. I will try to explain from my perspective in a moderate tone. It doesn't mean it's right or it's justified to initiate the war. I hope the war could end immediately and no more death to come. It's just people have different view about how it even began.

 

NATO told Ukraine it could be a member in 2008 and Ukraine began its illusion it literally could become a NATO member ever since. So many years, US and other NATO countries never give clear message to Ukraine but give meaningless verbal support. The point is that it gives Ukraine bravery to counter Russia and even write it inside the constitution to become NATO member which is definitely intolerable for Russia. Without solid and concrete support from west, no post-USSR country should ever try this. US gave Ukraine fake hope, fake courage to provoke Russia instead of itself. US is hiding behind a weak proxy with meaningless support. There are some strategy equilibrium between major powers and have to appreciate each other's bottom line. Anyone who tries to break it has to think twice if I can take the consequences. If USA tells Ukraine clearly that I will not accept you as NATO member and if you have war with Russia I will stand by, I think Ukraine will choose to be like Finland and we will not see the conflict today.

You don't realize imperial Russian politicians HATE independent Ukraine for centuries. Same as independent Baltic states or independent Poland. This is rooted to Russian DNA long before NATO existed and the current war path didn't start in 2008 at all.

[Vic Liu 1,671]

3 minutes ago, Monzanator said:

You don't realize imperial Russian politicians HATE independent Ukraine for centuries. Same as independent Baltic states or independent Poland. This is rooted to Russian DNA long before NATO existed and the current war path didn't start in 2008 at all.

I know that Russia always has ambition to do that. But I think Russia won't initiate a war out of nowhere when it's still weak in terms of economy.

[Grassmarket 3,353]

3 minutes ago, Monzanator said:

You don't realize imperial Russian politicians HATE independent Ukraine for centuries. Same as independent Baltic states or independent Poland. This is rooted to Russian DNA long before NATO existed and the current war path didn't start in 2008 at all.

Exactly. To a certain kind of Russian nationalist - which does not remotely mean all Russians, or even all Russian nationalists, but does include important Russians like Nicholas I, Stalin & Putin - everything that was once Russian is still Russian.  And that their historical legacy will be defined by how much of it they get back.  There is even a Russian name for it - государственная школа - the School of the State, the people for whom the welfare of the Russian State itself is the supreme goal of politics. 

[Grassmarket 3,353]

1 minute ago, Vic Liu said:

I know that Russia always has ambition to do that. But I think Russia won't initiate a war out of nowhere when it's still weak in terms of economy.

The Russian economy has always been weak, but its army is usually strong.   They see a unique, probably never to recur, opportunity with a weak & divided Europe, a senile man and a corrupt oligarchy running America and a China with whom they share a common interest in overturning the post-Cold War state system. 

[dcro 10,210]

Finland has their own thing going. They survived the 20th century without getting absorbed by the CCCP, so I assume that's the main reason why they do not even consider playing with fire (joining NATO).

 

Odds are that Ukraine's only way out was turning into a puppet-state like Belarus, but that's not really a way out, is it?

[Vic Liu 1,671]

Just now, dcro said:

Finland has their own thing going. They survived the 20th century without getting absorbed by the CCCP, so I assume that's the main reason why they do not even consider playing with fire (joining NATO).

 

Odds are that Ukraine's only way out was turning into a puppet-state like Belarus, but that's not really a way out, is it?

Or like Mongolia, Kazakhstan. Have relatively good relationship with US, Russia and China at the same time.

[bestmen 2,780]

24 minutes ago, Vic Liu said:

I think many users don't understand that why some people blame US and NATO for this conflict. I will try to explain from my perspective in a moderate tone. It doesn't mean it's right or it's justified to initiate the war. I hope the war could end immediately and no more death to come. It's just people have different view about how it even began.

 

NATO told Ukraine it could be a member in 2008 and Ukraine began its illusion it literally could become a NATO member ever since. So many years, US and other NATO countries never give clear message to Ukraine but give meaningless verbal support. The point is that it gives Ukraine bravery to counter Russia and even write it inside the constitution to become NATO member which is definitely intolerable for Russia. Without solid and concrete support from west, no post-USSR country should ever try this. US gave Ukraine fake hope, fake courage to provoke Russia instead of itself. US is hiding behind a weak proxy with meaningless support. There are some strategy equilibrium between major powers and have to appreciate each other's bottom line. Anyone who tries to break it has to think twice if I can take the consequences. If USA tells Ukraine clearly that I will not accept you as NATO member and if you have war with Russia I will stand by, I think Ukraine will choose to be like Finland and we will not see the conflict today.

Exactly ,to resume:  Russia wanted to join Nato , they didn't accept , that means nato was created to destroy Russia, and China is the next ....this is what USA is planing