[Cinnamon Bun 408]

4 minutes ago, Epic Failure said:

They couldn't go up to 37 in every event without increasing the total quota.

 

Whilst it is disappointing not to have any British representation, it was always likely. Stutchbury was always on the edge. It's not a particularly egregious problem for the 30th ranked athlete to miss the games, when the field is 34. At least for me.

While it may not sound too egregious like that, when you look at how the qualification system treats individual fencers then she's been very unfortunate not to qualify. The blame isn't solely on that though, as she should beat the Romanian yesterday and absolutely bottled it. Furthermore UK sport hasn't exactly helped by cutting the sport's funding over the years. The only thing, for me at least, which would make up for this is by qualifying in a sport we failed to do in Tokyo (excluding breaking as it's a new sport). Like I said earlier Beach Volleyball looks most likely so hopefully the Bello brothers can get their arses into gear and pick up some serious points over the next month so they don't have to go to the CEV qualifier. 

[Cinnamon Bun 408]

Just now, Epic Failure said:

Just looking at the rankings, I think there's pretty much zero chance she gets in.

 

There's more athletes higher ranked than her than there are places anyway I think, and that's assuming none of the places went to the tripartite.

That's really annoying, they should be going to the 37 athlete limit in all events imo - that's now another gripe to be had with the qualification system. First time we haven't qualified an athlete in fencing too, which is pretty appalling. I guess we'll just have to qualify in a sport we didn't do in Tokyo to even things up, over to the Bello brothers in beach volleyball. 

[Cinnamon Bun 408]

1 minute ago, JoshMartini007 said:

Since France is not using any of its 8 host quotas, they are first awarded to tripartite nations. If they are not allocated, then they are awarded to the next highest ranked eligible athlete across all events. An event may only have a maximum of three additional entries so each event will have between 34 to 37 entrants.

So how many do you reckon will take up the tripartite offer and how likely is it for Stutchbury to get in? 

[Cinnamon Bun 408]

26 minutes ago, Faramir said:

Ilieva and Tulen gets the last spots. Now, since France had no need to use any host quota, there are 8 universality places for tripartite nations- too many, considering that a few of them qualified on their own. So some of them will be reallocated.

 

"if the Tripartite Commission is not able to allocate Universality Place(s), such unallocated Place(s) will be attributed by the FIE to the next highest-ranked eligible athlete in the Individual Senior Adjusted Official Ranking (AOR) as of 1 April 2024, across all weapon and all FIE Zones, but strictly respecting the following:

- The maximum number of athletes in each individual event (37) and

- The NOC must not have any athlete already qualified in the corresponding individual event "

 

The first eligible fencers in order should be

[Cinnamon Bun 408]

What's the deal with the universality places? If all 3 aren't taken do the remaining spot(s) get reallocated via the rankings to make up the 37 athlete limit in each event? 

[Cinnamon Bun 408]

.

Edited April 28 by Cinnamon Bun

[Cinnamon Bun 408]

11 hours ago, Makedonas said:

But in fencing there is the ranking, so technically there are many chances to gain points towards an Olympic quota, though of course there are too few spots for this.

Definitely and that's the main problem here, the qualification effectively says "if the 2nd and/or 3rd best fencers in your country aren't good enough for a team quota, then you're not good enough for an individual". Table tennis has a similar qualification system to fencing, yet they managed to offer around 10-15 quotas from the rankings. Yes they have more than double the quotas but they still managed to find room for the individual athletes by not flooding the individual events with three qualifiers from the team event per qualified country. 

Edited April 28 by Cinnamon Bun

[Cinnamon Bun 408]

2 hours ago, Jur said:

26th in the world wouldnt give you a quota in taekwondo, artistic swimming, judo, boxing, any team sport or most of the sailing classes

In sports such as boxing, sailing and a lot of the team sports you get multiple chances to qualify so if 26th in the world didn't qualify they'd have no room to complain. In terms of artistic swimming, judo and taekwondo there are too little quota spots given to those countries as 26th in the world should qualify to the biggest event for each of those sports. Golf, Tennis, Table Tennis and even Beach Volleyball to an extent are able to get the 26th best in the world to the Olympics, Fencing should be no different given its format. But this all wouldn't need to be said if the IOC had increased the athlete quotas by 1000-1500. 

[Cinnamon Bun 408]

1 hour ago, JoshMartini007 said:

She had an opportunity to qualify through the rankings, she just didn't rank high enough. Her second opportunity was through this qualifier.

 

In all fairness, she's ranked 33rd (26th if you remove nations with more than 3 athletes). This isn't a top 5 athlete with a medal chance missing out.

Doesn't matter, no one ranked 26th after removed nations should miss out on qualifying for the Olympics - there needs to be more respect from the IOC and relevant sporting bodies towards these individual athletes who consistently perform well across a 2 year span. And with how unpredictable fencing can be, I think she would've given herself a decent shot at challenging for a medal. 

[Cinnamon Bun 408]

18 minutes ago, Olympian1010 said:

Of course, you're also talking about qualification to a "one off" event.

 

I personally like that fencers can qualify through by individual ranking or continental tournaments. I think there are some changes you could make to help more top ranked individual fencers qualify through the rankings, but I like that individual athletes get two chances at qualification. 

I'm not saying that there shouldn't be a one-off qualifier, I'm still all for them. I just think a top 30 fencer who has performed consistently well for 2 years shouldn't be confined to a one-off qualifier and should instead get in via the rankings. 

[Cinnamon Bun 408]

20 minutes ago, copravolley said:

Look at rowing... During the European Championships, special qualifying regattas are organized for European countries that have won less than 2 qualifications in total at the World Championships. Moreover, in the same place. As if it wasn't possible to simply make an open European Championship and distribute the quotas to the best crews who havn`t yet qualified. In my opinion, the IOC and their stupid rules are to blame because these absurdities apply to virtually every sports federation.

I see why they do so this but in the sports they do, Rowing and Taekwondo, the events they do them in already have a variety of nations competing so there's really no need to prevent top countries from other events from competing as those events already have a variety of countries qualified. 

[Cinnamon Bun 408]

7 minutes ago, Faramir said:

Agree in theory but not in practice in this case: when your best was like 30th in the individual olympic ranking across all weapons, and the field is around 34 fencers, with any qualification system with continental limitations qualifying someone would be a coin toss

Not really as in that top 34 there's bound to be a couple countries that have 4 or 5 athletes meaning 1/6th of the athletes in that top 34 would be ineligible based on the 3 quota max rule. Either way in a sport like fencing there needs to be more priority towards ranking rather than one off events. I may be in a better mood about this tomorrow though if Maxwell or Brooke get a shock qualification. 

[Cinnamon Bun 408]

The only real hope we have tomorrow is Maxwell in the Sabre who has shown some good form recently, I don't expect anything from Brooke in a big Eppe field. 

[Cinnamon Bun 408]

2 minutes ago, Faramir said:

You have one, competing for Cyprus.

 

It's more the reward for how stupid and ignorant the British sport system is in regards to funding in sports where results are highly variable, i clearly remember they cut fencing funding to zero because Kruse lost the bronze medal bout in 2016, until he won a WCh medal in 2018 or something. 

 

I don't disagree with you there, but the qualification system is still mostly to blame as it limits the amount of individual athletes can qualify and effectively says "if other members of your team aren't good enough then your not good enough". 

[Cinnamon Bun 408]

1 minute ago, copravolley said:

Nothing can beat the stupid qualification rules in sailing anyway... Yesterday, the Italian crew in 49 became the victims. And all this because of constant fiddling with continental quotas and inventing some strange preferences based on unclear rules.

Yeah I found the whole fiasco with the final qualifier strange as there were countries listed as qualified who were well behind a plethora of unqualified countries in the official results. 

[Cinnamon Bun 408]

3 minutes ago, Faramir said:

Again, if 3 fencers from country X are there for the team event, having only 2 of them compete in the individual event won't increase the spots for individuals unless the total number of quotas is increased - which is clearly not happening.

What do you mean it won't increase the spots. Instead of the teams taking 24 spots they'd only take 16 meaning there'd be 8 spots open for the highest 8 on the world rankings. Table tennis is a prime example of this and the Fie should learn from them when it comes to converting team quotas to individual. 

Edited April 27 by Cinnamon Bun

[Cinnamon Bun 408]

1 minute ago, zob79 said:

Kiddo looks like a genuine talent; don't worry, she will make it to the next Olympics

I've got no doubt she will, but the fact that we're not gonna have a single fencer in Paris, barring a miracle, due to how stupid the qualification system is is a sorry state of affairs. 

[Cinnamon Bun 408]

Fucks sake Stutchbury. Absolutely bottled that from 9-5 up. We go from potentially qualifying a team in Men's foil and athletes in Women's Foil and Men's Sabre via rankings to none at all. Shows how stupid the qualification criteria is when you prioritise team athletes over individual in the individual event. 

[Cinnamon Bun 408]

31 minutes ago, Vektor said:

 takes a big step in men's foil thanks to their easy draw, they are in the Top8 while  and  gets eliminated in the R16. 

There goes our chance of getting any quotas in fencing. 

Edited July 29, 2023 by Cinnamon Bun

[Cinnamon Bun 408]

14 minutes ago, phelps said:

yes, the Team events at the EU Games will be ranked, meanwhile the Individual ones have been replaced with a new competition in Plovdiv the week before.

At this point the team event is way more important than the individual. We've got 2-3 athletes who would be in a qualifying position if there wasn't this stupid exceeding quota rule.  

[Cinnamon Bun 408]

Atrocious start for the British team in all events, need a big EU games (which I believe is still ranked) on all fronts if we're to stand a chance. 

[Cinnamon Bun 408]

Is there a team event for the foil grand prix in Shangai or not, can't seem to find anything on the website.  

[Cinnamon Bun 408]

13 minutes ago, phelps said:

don't worry, it's only the 1st round...

I think in the end it will be between  and  maybe  for the European quota (as  and  will be surely in the top 4 overall).

I hope so. We've got about 2-3 fencers who have a good shot at getting individual quotas, and whether they get them could all depend on whether we get the team quotas due to European quotas being exceeded.  

[Cinnamon Bun 408]

1 minute ago, phelps said:

men's Team Foil in  Acapulco

 

Quarterfinals

 

 vs

 vs

 vs

 vs  

Poor from , this is a quota we should be going for and one that will massively impact whether we get any individual quotas.  

[Cinnamon Bun 408]

Out of the results I've seen on this forum in recent months,  have been putting in some good results and medalling quite a bit in cadet, junior and senior events. Maybe Fencing could be a bit of a medal trove for us in future Olympics.