[OFF TOPIC] Politics Thread

[Grassmarket 3,409]

29 minutes ago, Olympian1010 said:

Interesting. I live near a massive wind turbine complex, and never knew this was a problem. 

Of course not.  Your liberal friends never tell people there are heavy ecological costs associated with their policy preferences.  In fact, solar farms also kill large numbers of birds.
 

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/solar-farms-threaten-birds/

 

 

[dcro 10,210]

Interesting. So these evil companies are using wind turbines to make themselves look good. How very shocking.

[Olympian1010 7,976]

14 minutes ago, Grassmarket said:

Of course not.  Your liberal friends never tell people there are heavy ecological costs associated with their policy preferences.  In fact, solar farms also kill large numbers of birds.
 

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/solar-farms-threaten-birds/

 

 

I’m very familiar with the battle over solar farms after what they’ve done to and for my community. The biggest issue here isn’t necessarily the birds, but the wildflower and Joshua tree habitat these companies raze to construct the solar farms. However, there are solutions to those problems. It just requires better planning. We need to utilize urban infrastructure to make these solar farms, instead of natural areas. 
 

Regarding solar farms from that article: “I strongly believe there’s a way to show the birds that the PV panels are solid surfaces, not water,” said Ileene Anderson, a scientist at the Center for Biological Diversity. “We can safeguard our irreplaceable wildlife, like the Yuma clapper rail, through thoughtful implementation of renewable energy projects,” Anderson said.

 

While “green” energy has some environmental hurdles to clear, let’s not forgot about the “wonderful” world of oil, gas, and other fossil fuels. Quote from the same article: “The effects of wind turbines on birds, which research suggests kill far fewer birds per megawatt hour than do fossil fuel plants.”

 

Conservationists en masse still support green/renewable energy, they just believe we need be more careful with the infrastructure.

[heywoodu 15,145]

41 minutes ago, dcro said:

Interesting. So these evil companies are using wind turbines to make themselves look good. How very shocking.

It's annoying, not shocking  

[phelps 7,678]

13 hours ago, rybak said:

In my case I don't expect this  As main opposition party (KO) is the most loud here, they didn't wins any elections since many years and when they ruled in the country some things were even worse than now.

 

There is still some more other parties which never (or in last 15 years) had even small chance to win elections. It's always game between PiS and KO. It is choice between a hammer and an anvil or bigger/lesser evil.

 

I have no idea why people didn't vote for other parties, really.

imho, having had a Polish Pope (and a very conservative one on all the doctrine themes like John Paul II) paved the way for today's disaster also in your Country (in Italy we've always had this problems, as Vatican is a "natural part" of our Country    )...

[NearPup 3,051]

10 hours ago, Grassmarket said:

He’s absolutely correct.

 

https://www.fws.gov/birds/bird-enthusiasts/threats-to-birds/collisions/wind-turbines.php

That number is completely dwarfed by the number of birds killed annually by pet cats, cars, power lines, the airline industry (mostly airports culling birds), cell towers, hunting and, wait for it, fossil fuel powerplants. Per GWh a fossil powerplant kills about ten times as many birds as a wind farm.

 

Saying wind farms in the US kill half a million birds sounds impressive until you see that collisions with buildings are estimated to kill between 100 million and one billion birds every year in the US.

[Grassmarket 3,409]

34 minutes ago, NearPup said:

That number is completely dwarfed by the number of birds killed annually by pet cats, cars, power lines, the airline industry (mostly airports culling birds), cell towers, hunting and, wait for it, fossil fuel powerplants. Per GWh a fossil powerplant kills about ten times as many birds as a wind farm.

 

Yeah, but wind & solar kill actual physical living birds.  Fossil fuel plants only kill theoretical, statistical birds in academic journal articles financed by the green lobby.

[heywoodu 15,145]

19 minutes ago, Grassmarket said:

Yeah, but wind & solar kill actual physical living birds.  Fossil fuel plants only kill theoretical, statistical birds in academic journal articles financed by the green lobby.

 

Aaaaand that's how you end any possibility for a rational discussion, great job.

[OlympicsFan 858]

11 hours ago, Grassmarket said:

He’s absolutely correct.

 

https://www.fws.gov/birds/bird-enthusiasts/threats-to-birds/collisions/wind-turbines.php

LOL ...

I remember researching about this topic when I read „Upheaval“ by Jared Diamond. Here is what I learned:

In the US roughly 45000 birds are killed by wind turbines every year, at the same time ONE cat kills roughly 300 birds per year. There are roughly 100 million cats in the US, which means that roughly 30 billion birds are killed by cats every year in the US. In addition to that many more birds are killed by plastic garbage and CO2 every year. So in general wind turbines certainly aren’t a big danger to birds, although I have to admit that certain birds (for example white-tailed eagle or red kite) don’t get killed by cats, but can get killed by wind turbines.
 

I can only recommend to you to read „How to Lie with Statistics“ by Darrell Huff ...

You always have to put numbers into context.

[Grassmarket 3,409]

7 minutes ago, OlympicsFan said:

LOL ...

I remember researching about this topic when I read „Upheaval“ by Jared Diamond. Here is what I learned:

In the US roughly 45000 birds are killed by wind turbines every year, at the same time ONE cat kills roughly 300 birds per year. There are roughly 100 million cats in the US, which means that roughly 30 billion birds are killed by cats every year in the US. In addition to that many more birds are killed by plastic garbage and CO2 every year. So in general wind turbines certainly aren’t a big danger to birds, although I have to admit that certain birds (for example white-tailed eagle or red kite) don’t get killed by cats, but can get killed by wind turbines.
 

I can only recommend to you to read „How to Lie with Statistics“ by Darrell Huff ...

You always have to put numbers into context.

So what you’re saying is that it’s mostly the rarest birds that get killed by wind turbines?