Naturalized Athletes at the Summer Olympic Games 2016

[Gianlu33 4,546]

Albert Saritov  (ex Russian) qualified in wrestling

[thiago_simoes 1,423]

On 6/5/2016 at 22:45, Pavlo said:

what? he was just "meritoric" in showing 1 example. Still Germany didn`t buy her like Turkey does or even Brazil in field hockey. If she changes countries like gloves...well....what Germans coud do, to forbid her to start when she was entitled to according to German law?? You went totally over the top and i think you should be careful with such quick and harsh judgements of other people basing on totallympics posts. This is so immature

 

Fist: I follow the sport quite closely, so I know what I'm writing about. I've followed Chusovitina's carrer for the last ten years, so I have a pretty solid idea about her motivations, and I know about her son and his illness. I was very clear when I said I do not judge her reasons for "changing countries like gloves" (on your words), but I will not turn a blind eye for what she does. I like her, I support her as an athlete, but I don't like it that she changes nationalities all the time.

Second: I did not choose culprits. I don't care if this is her problem, FIG's problem, Germany's problem or the IOC's problem. What I'm saying is: the fact that she is allowed to do this is highly questionable and it seems unfair to me that anyone (not only her) can step up and change nationalities so easily. Yes, this is a much bigger problem thanks to countries like Azerbaijan or Turkey, but many countries -- directly or indirectly -- benefit from such a thing. Again, I'm pointing out a fact, and I'm not making any sort of "harsh judgment". I might not approve something like this, but her reasons are hers, not mine, and I don't care why she does that. Still, I can't help but feel like this is not right. Once again, I don't care about who should "solve" this problem. I'm not trying to come up with solutions. I'm just pointing things out.

MODERATED PART

[Pavlo 141]

On 8/5/2016 at 22:57, thiago_simoes said:

 

Fist: I follow the sport quite closely, so I know what I'm writing about. I've followed Chusovitina's carrer for the last ten years, so I have a pretty solid idea about her motivations, and I know about her son and his illness. I was very clear when I said I do not judge her reasons for "changing countries like gloves" (on your words), but I will not turn a blind eye for what she does. I like her, I support her as an athlete, but I don't like it that she changes nationalities all the time.

Second: I did not choose culprits. I don't care if this is her problem, FIG's problem, Germany's problem or the IOC's problem. What I'm saying is: the fact that she is allowed to do this is highly questionable and it seems unfair to me that anyone (not only her) can step up and change nationalities so easily. Yes, this is a much bigger problem thanks to countries like Azerbaijan or Turkey, but many countries -- directly or indirectly -- benefit from such a thing. Again, I'm pointing out a fact, and I'm not making any sort of "harsh judgment". I might not approve something like this, but her reasons are hers, not mine, and I don't care why she does that. Still, I can't help but feel like this is not right. Once again, I don't care about who should "solve" this problem. I'm not trying to come up with solutions. I'm just pointing things out.

MODERATED PART

MODERATED PART

 

And as to this athlete, well, what is not forbidden is allowed, i don`t like approach like her`s, but it`s not her who is causing a problem, Turkey, Qatar and Aze are. U can do what u want with my response, it`s your free will and i don`t care about it

[OlympicsFan 858]

On 8/5/2016 at 22:57, thiago_simoes said:

 

Fist: I follow the sport quite closely, so I know what I'm writing about. I've followed Chusovitina's carrer for the last ten years, so I have a pretty solid idea about her motivations, and I know about her son and his illness. I was very clear when I said I do not judge her reasons for "changing countries like gloves" (on your words), but I will not turn a blind eye for what she does. I like her, I support her as an athlete, but I don't like it that she changes nationalities all the time.

Second: I did not choose culprits. I don't care if this is her problem, FIG's problem, Germany's problem or the IOC's problem. What I'm saying is: the fact that she is allowed to do this is highly questionable and it seems unfair to me that anyone (not only her) can step up and change nationalities so easily. Yes, this is a much bigger problem thanks to countries like Azerbaijan or Turkey, but many countries -- directly or indirectly -- benefit from such a thing. Again, I'm pointing out a fact, and I'm not making any sort of "harsh judgment". I might not approve something like this, but her reasons are hers, not mine, and I don't care why she does that. Still, I can't help but feel like this is not right. Once again, I don't care about who should "solve" this problem. I'm not trying to come up with solutions. I'm just pointing things out.

MODERATED PART

I will write an answer just for you and this will be my last input into this discussion, after that i will write another answer with more general thoughts and i would be happy to discuss about them with you:

 

Short answer:

I think you are unfair to Pavlo, i think he never trolled, he was always writing his true opinion and i also had some problems with his opinion in the past (concerning athletes with african background who compete for european nations for example).

In my opinion you cant compare Germany to nations like Turkey, Azerbaijan or Qatar, Germany doesnt buy athletes (believe it or not) and Germany doesnt force athletes to change their name. In addition to that all athletes who compete for Germany live in Germany and have to learn german (at least i never heard of a counterexample).

Why (in your opinion) did she come to Germany if it was only for the money (i think she could have earned much more in other nations)?

Why did Germany lose athletes like Hindes (track cycling), Tazegül (taekwondo) or Litvinov (athletics) if Germany would really be willing to "buy" athletes?

Have countries like Turkey, Azerbaijan or Qatar ever lost some of their top athletes to other countries?

If you dont want to discuss with people like Pavlo or me, then just ignore us, although i dont think thats the right way. We are here to discuss, so you have to respect other opinions. I have also said in the past that i dont want to discuss with user X or user Y anymore, but now i am back to discuss with most of them. You should never say never ... People can change and it should be only about the content and not about the person who wrote it.

 

More general answer:

The most important thing: I completely agree with you that no athlete in any sport should be allowed to compete for 2 or more different nations at senior level, of course there are some cases where it might be necessary for one athlete to change nationality, but in 99% of the cases there is no necessity to change nationality.

In my opinion thats a problem of federations like FIG and not a problem of the athletes or countries, IOC or all international federations should forbid this in general.

On the other hand i can also understand people who have a different opinion about that:

Lets take Chusovitina as an example: Did you ever ask yourself why she didnt become world class (again) until she moved to Germany? In my opinion she was only successful, because she had much better conditions in Germany, in addition to that she still lives in Germany with her son and her husband, so she obviously liked it here. Dont you think that its only "fair" that she competes for the country that made her "big" (again)? Germany got a world class athlete "for free", so why should the german federation have said no? Of course you could say that she blocked the way into the national team for some of our talents, but in my opinion rather the opposite is true, she helped athletes like Berger to become much better. Germany didnt force her to come here, it was her decision and both Chusovitina and Germany profited from this move. Considering all this, why should this be forbidden in general? In the end you never know if an athlete gets paid to compete for another country, so you have to forbid it in general. I dont think that you can allow nationality changes if athletes dont get paid but forbid nationality changes if athletes get paid, so you have to forbid both. I think you could compare it to the situation of talents in a sport like football. In the past many talents decided to play for a bigger club at a very young age, before they had signed a contract with their old club, so the talent and the new club profited from it, but the old club (who had invested a lot of money into the talent) got nothing. What was the solution? The old clubs always got some money from the new club, so everyone was happy at the end. Either we forbid transfers between nations in general or we decide that the "old nation" has to get paid if an athlete wants to compete for a "new nation". Why should someone be "punished" just because he was born in the "wrong" nation? If some very talented boxer from Uzbekistan doesnt have the necessary training conditions in his home country, then why shouldnt he be allowed to go to a country with better training coonditions? Why shouldnt someone from Nigeria be allowed to study in GB for example, if there are much better universities in GB? What is the difference between those 2 examples? You can study abroad without changing your nationality, but its more difficult to do the same in sport. Why should GB pay for the training of a boxer from Uzbekistan, if he doesnt compete for GB? The boxer from uzbekistan basically has to "pay" for the training by competing for GB. I think there would be another good solution: For example IOC creates something like a "training scholarship" so that athletes from poor nations can train with the best conditions in richer countries, this would probably also help to make sport more popular in many poor countries.

 

Those are a lot of different "thoughts" and i didnt try to give a general "answer" to this problem, but i just wanted to show that there are many ways to look at this "problem". So if you like, you can only answer to certain parts of my text.

[Pavlo 141]

well, this is a forum panel, we don`t have to agree here, we have different opinions, what`s wrong with it? I had "problems" with opinions of many users too but i really got bored with dragging for YEARS things from the past and judging me on sth from some YEARS ago ;).

 

This forum is meant to exchange different opinions and i still think that if some person flees his country representing it earlier he has 100% right to flee, to save his life, to raise their social and financial level in some e.g. German clubs. But escaping from war in your mothercountry doesn`t logically effect the fact that this athlete should start for his new nation. This is not the act of any "livesaving", this is not necessary to have a good life in new country. Just this. Maybe every athlete who has 2-countries origin or citizenship should be allowed on his 20th birthday to decide which country he chooses.

 

Still, reality is different and it changed my approach, there is no sense of fighting reality, if it`s so, let it be so, i don`t mind some foreign athletes in Polish colours if we didn`t "steal" them from let`s say Bulgaria. I just think that Qatar etc rather...harm themeselves more than help

 

Edited May 9, 2016 by Pavlo

[thepharoah 2,405]

Thanks God , Egypt doesn't have any naturalized athletes and i don't think there's even 10 athletes from Egypt will represent other countries in Olympics 

[vinipereira 3,240]

Em 06/05/2016 at 21:59, vinipereira disse:

Brazil should have some naturalized players in the men's teams of Field Hockey, Rugby Sevens and Water Polo, but no name is confirmed yet. Larry Taylor also should be part of our Men's Basketball team. As for individual sports, the athletes confirmed so far are:

 

Nathalie Moellhausen, Fencing (Italy)
Xavier Vela Maggi, Rowing (Spain)
Gui Lin, Table Tennis (China)

 

Our Fencing team will probably have 1/2 more naturalized athletes, and Eduard Soghomonyan (Armenia) of Wrestling will try to be selected for the team. Considering that our Athletics program is pretty much terrible, it's "strange" that we won't have a naturalized athlete there

 

After the complete Fencing selection, we can add to the list:

 

Emese Takacs, Fencing (Hungary)

 

Ghislain Perrier was born in Brazil, but was adopted by french parents at a young age. I don't know much about Marta Baeza, but she was born in Brazil and apparently grew up in Spain (so I don't know if these two cases should count).

[juddy96 171]

Wrestling has quite a few

 

Frank Chamizo from

Franklin Gomez from

Jaime Espinal from

Sahit Prizreni from

Talgat Ilyasov from

Vinod Kumar from

Ivan Popov from

Adam Batirov from

Haislan Garcia from

Zelimkhan Khadjiev from

Taimuraz Friev from

Selim Yasar from

Elif Jale Yesilirmak from

Magomed Musaev from

Georgy Ketoyev from

Levan Berianidze from

Albert Saritov from

Jamaladdin Magomedov from

Saman Tahmasebi from

Sabah Shariati from

Mariya Stadnik from

Tervel Dlagnev from

Rustam Assakalov from

Javid Hamzatau from

Elis Guri from

Zhuldyz Eshimova from

Guzel Manyurova from

[vinipereira 3,240]

Soon after Emese Takacs earned a place for Olympics, a controversy emerged in brazilian Fencing. The athlete's citizenship was suspended after some irregularities in her naturalization process - including the possibility that her marriage with a brazilian was "arranged" (apparently she has another partner). The case was open by Giocondo Cabral, who is a coach of another athlete, Amanda Simeão, the next in line for a spot in the team. The decision is not final, but for now things don't look good for her (more details here).

 

Amanda herself gave some really harsh declarations to the press about her "teammate" (here).

[MHSN 3,616]

On 5/12/2016 at 09:11, juddy96 said:

Wrestling has quite a few

 

Frank Chamizo from

Franklin Gomez from

Jaime Espinal from

Sahit Prizreni from

Talgat Ilyasov from

Vinod Kumar from

Ivan Popov from

Adam Batirov from

Haislan Garcia from

Zelimkhan Khadjiev from

Taimuraz Friev from

Selim Yasar from

Elif Jale Yesilirmak from

Magomed Musaev from

Georgy Ketoyev from

Levan Berianidze from

Albert Saritov from

Jamaladdin Magomedov from

Saman Tahmasebi from

Sabah Shariati from

Mariya Stadnik from

Tervel Dlagnev from

Rustam Assakalov from

Javid Hamzatau from

Elis Guri from

Zhuldyz Eshimova from

Guzel Manyurova from

 

Actually there are more in wrestling !

even though I don't consider some of those guys above as "naturalized " Espinal lived most of his live in Puerto Rico. or Dlagnev is much more American than Novachkov or Ivanov being Bulgarian (they raised in USA)

 

 Artas Sanaa from

Ibragim Saidov from

Amarhajy Mahamedau from

Mamed Ibragimov from

Magomed Ibragimov from

Khetag Gazyumov from

Magomedgadzhi Khatiyev from

Aiaal Lazarev from

 Eduard Soghomonyan from

Edited May 13, 2016 by MHSN