Road Cycling at the Cycling UCI World Championships 2023

heywoodu · August 7, 2023

25 minutes ago, mpjmcevoy said:

I think you just have to tell yourself that the Olympic Road Race is a unique proposition - it's not just the World Champs+ or an extra classic - rather it's a rather back to basics design - very small teams, if teams at all, no radios - the 'team' element that is quietly ubiquitous in cycling is deliberately undercut. It's a feature, not a flaw - or both a flaw and a feature if you are a semi-traditionalist.

If you are a dutch, or belgian, I dare say that pisses you off. If you are an Austrian part time pro, or an ecuadorian, it's a positive boon. At the moment, to be fair there are about half a dozen 'once in a generation superstars all riding at once, an astonishing thing (think of the Big 4 in tennis), and maybe another half a dozen super dangerous riders, covering about 8-10 nations; it's kinda cool, once in 4 years, to see them unmoored from their team support, and just riding on fumes and instinct - it lets clever riders like Carapaz steal a march!

It's not about nationality, as sports in general shouldn't be, why I don't like it. I don't like it as a road cycling fan, since the Olympic road race will have a very depleted field of starters because of these things. A field with a bunch of top riders, a bunch of riders who are there mostly to show themselves on TV for a bit in the early attack, and not really anything in between. Keep in mind that, unlike in most other sports, road racing definitely doesn't have a single-digit number of realistic winners, one could easily come up with 100 riders who would all not be super sensational winners.

Team support is not even that much of a thing in world championships anyway. A little, of course, and some teams more than others, but for example Evenepoel is definitely not going to be happy to see Van Aert break away (and Van Aert was just chasing after Evenepoel even)

heywoodu · August 7, 2023

27 minutes ago, mpjmcevoy said:

The men's pros have only ridden since '92, that's why you don't remember them - as soon as you rode a pro race, you were barred (see Kelly, Séan)

1992 was barely two years after I was born, that's more of a reason than the pro/amateur thing. It was also barely two years before I started watching cycling, I'd say

I've definitely seen all the Olympic road races since 2000 or so, but even right now I'd have to very seriously dig in my memory to name the past two or three Olympic champions, and one of them is only memorable because he bought his gold medal in a bit too obvious manner

OlympicsFan · August 7, 2023

Not even sure why cycling road race should have more than 3 athletes per nation (as pretty much every other sport)?

JoshMartini007 · August 7, 2023

12 minutes ago, OlympicsFan said:

Not even sure why cycling road race should have more than 3 athletes per nation (as pretty much every other sport)?

Because it's secretly a team sport, but only one person wins a medal.

Though honestly with the IOC getting rid of the team aspect, there isn't a huge reason other than the need to get more bodies in the race.

Grassmarket · August 7, 2023

Was looking back at the history of the Olympic Road Race on Wikipedia - had an idea that pre 1992 it was usually won by the "amateur" riders of Communist Europe, in the way that football etc usually was. Turns out this wasn't true, and that actually some fairly well-known people won, presumably then going onto pro careers.

However, here's what happened at Munich 1972

"Irish protesters

Seven members of the National Cycling Association (NCA) were arrested for disrupting the event. The Union Cycliste Internationale (UCI) recognised separate national federations on either side of the Irish political border. The NCA was an Irish Republican all-Ireland body not affiliated to the ICU. Three NCA members delayed the start by distributing leaflets,[4] and the other four joined mid-race to ambush Irish competitor Noel Teggart, causing a minor pile-up.[5]"

So there's previous for idiot protestors from Celtic nations! :facepalm:

mpjmcevoy · August 7, 2023

2 hours ago, heywoodu said:

1992 was barely two years after I was born, that's more of a reason than the pro/amateur thing. It was also barely two years before I started watching cycling, I'd say

I've definitely seen all the Olympic road races since 2000 or so, but even right now I'd have to very seriously dig in my memory to name the past two or three Olympic champions, and one of them is only memorable because he bought his gold medal in a bit too obvious manner

My point is, when you get into cycling (I was a Tour junkie from the age of about 11, in the mid 1980s) you reasonably quickly get into the lore, because cycling is like that. History really sells.

The Olympics doesn't really have that lore on the road because it banned professionals, though, like Tennis, it has changed a bit now to the point were people really do want it, and while it's not quite a Monument, or the Worlds, or a grand tour of course, it has started to really matter - and really irritate some riders because of the odd nature of the field!

Similarly, when Tennis first returned, John McEnroe, famous for his patriotism and playing for the US, skipped it because there was no real history - it meant nothing to him. 20 years later, in 2012, he admitted it was one of his single biggest regrets at the Olympics at Wimbledon - where Murray's gold all but meant as much as a grand slam. anyone who has seen Del Potro and Djokovic's tears on Olympic courts know that this weird, underpowered little tournament now matters hugely.

You can see the beginnings of the same in golf, with former cynics more or less bought in to it.

The olympic TT, I would argue, is at least the equal of the world TT. But the road race isn't the same as the Worlds, though it's pretty important these days.

mpjmcevoy · August 7, 2023

3 minutes ago, Grassmarket said:

Was looking back at the history of the Olympic Road Race on Wikipedia - had an idea that pre 1992 it was usually won by the "amateur" riders of Communist Europe, in the way that football etc usually was. Turns out this wasn't true, and that actually some fairly well-known people won, presumably then going onto pro careers.

However, here's what happened at Munich 1972

"Irish protesters

Seven members of the National Cycling Association (NCA) were arrested for disrupting the event. The Union Cycliste Internationale (UCI) recognised separate national federations on either side of the Irish political border. The NCA was an Irish Republican all-Ireland body not affiliated to the ICU. Three NCA members delayed the start by distributing leaflets,[4] and the other four joined mid-race to ambush Irish competitor Noel Teggart, causing a minor pile-up.[5]"

So there's previous for idiot protestors from Celtic nations!

Yes, it was closer to an 'amateur worlds' And don't TALK to me about the idiocy of politics in Irish sports admin!

OlympicsFan · August 7, 2023

7 minutes ago, Grassmarket said:

Was looking back at the history of the Olympic Road Race on Wikipedia - had an idea that pre 1992 it was usually won by the "amateur" riders of Communist Europe, in the way that football etc usually was. Turns out this wasn't true, and that actually some fairly well-known people won, presumably then going onto pro careers.

However, here's what happened at Munich 1972

"Irish protesters

Seven members of the National Cycling Association (NCA) were arrested for disrupting the event. The Union Cycliste Internationale (UCI) recognised separate national federations on either side of the Irish political border. The NCA was an Irish Republican all-Ireland body not affiliated to the ICU. Three NCA members delayed the start by distributing leaflets,[4] and the other four joined mid-race to ambush Irish competitor Noel Teggart, causing a minor pile-up.[5]"

So there's previous for idiot protestors from Celtic nations!

Back then protesters were preventing you from watching the race, nowadays it is commercials ...

OlympicsFan · August 7, 2023

19 minutes ago, JoshMartini007 said:

Because it's secretly a team sport, but only one person wins a medal.

Though honestly with the IOC getting rid of the team aspect, there isn't a huge reason other than the need to get more bodies in the race.

I get that (of course), but it doesn't have to be that way. There are already a million races a year that are decided by team tactics, not sure why we need another one. Also surprising to me that someone says that it shouldn't be about nationalities but then argues for a rule that makes team (= nation) tactics more likely. I think with 3 riders per nation the races would get less predictable. It would be a different kind of race than we usually have.

Something else that is interesting (at least for me): In cross-country skiing we never see tactics like in cycling. The top athletes in cross-country skiing just go fast from the start and destroy the field.