mpjmcevoy

Orangehair is obsessed with crises news about funding, constantly dragging stories with no funding implications to that subject. seems to have a bee in his bonnet about the subject, but its tedious for the rest of us to see the fantasies constantly and boringly repeated. It's almost a relief that there's some limited 'there there' in this case, though not for the reasons he's suggesting.

With the best will in the world, causing distress is the point. A horse is, frankly, a pretty dumb animal. They aren't all really Mr Ed. It doesn't understand 'why' type instruction, it can't be cajoled or persuaded or bribed into doing new things it doesn't understand or naturally want to. Those artificial movements are trained in by repeat use of carrot and stick - a phrase that literally refers to equine traing. And it's a real stick, and it hurts and its supposed to. that's the grim truth. A horse is controlled with a bit, bridle and reins. Think about what that actually means. - a mouth bar pins the tongue, the horses head is held in place, and the implement is pulled, twisted and turned to direct the horse. this isn't shep, a dog who can learn whistles. Someone somewhere decried "my god, treating that poor horse like a circus elephant' Kiddo, the elephant is smarter, it's arguably more cruel to the elephant. But the idea is absolutely the same, and for the same reason. IF you can't stomach that - and many can't and its a legitimate view - then there's no point even following equestrian sports let alone dressage.

Absolutely my reaction - didn't like it, don't really like dressage, was long aware of everyday abusive stuff on the continent, assumed GBR had not caught up with these nations without employing similar methods - think Team Sky and TUEs. Worth noting in context that the Wonderhorse of the age was a dutch horse, Totillas that was controversially bought for an absolute fortune by the Dutch great rivals the Germans, with MUCHOS MUCHOS bad feeling. The Horse never really got better, and died relatively young. The Dutch regularly complained, publically, that the Germans were 'ruining' the horse with rollkur and other practices. Yet the former dutch rider of totillas was using exactly those practices with all his horses. Always had been. In other words, Dutch hypocrisy in this area is not new, and they are far from innocent. They do the same shit - but they are the only ones who accuse others.

Having now seen the video, the sport is screwed. Why? Because this is nothing compared to what goes on in most dressage stables regularly, especially on the continent - it is absolutely standard training procedure. IMHO Dujardin has taken 'one for the team' here rather than fess up that this is what dressage is - like one of the old fashioned doping cyclists who says nothing when caught, even though he knows all his rivals are at it..

I never mentioned the Vuelta - the gold is Olympic, not the former vuelta jersey

It's an odd sport. a bit like F1, the rider is only as good as the horse. A good rider will do well regardless, but not win. Dujardin had an astonishing horse. She no longer has, but was returning to the top echelons. but the main gold medal shot is Lottie Fry. The reserve horse is not bad at all, and you could argue it doesn't hurt as much as it looks like it would. But the aim here is not, I suspect, the individual event, but the team event which historically has been where the Germans and Dutch excelled before GBR upset that apple cart out of nowhere in 2012. I would think sabotaging the team, rather than just eliminating the person, is the aim - any inquiry/investigation into Dujardin is going to suck in Hester too. IMHO Fry is still a strong bet for a medal in the individual, but the team are probably in trouble.

All the evidence points to Dutch 'whistleblower', right on the eve of the Games when it does most sporting damage to a rival. In a climate where the Dutch generally have taken pelters for choosing child rapists. Ockham's razor.

I wouldn't disagree. Dressage is a sport long hallowed by its history. But you absolutely would not invent it now - training horses to unnaturally mimic dancing - at leat the other two events train the horses to do something they basically do naturally anyway (gallop and jump). My strong suspicion is that it is impossible to make horses do Dressage to any significant level without fairly frequent physical chastisement. And I think everyone in the sport knows that and keeps schtum, like the old cycling omerta. This is intriguing but it seems pretty likely that one team, or individual on that team has broken that omerta at a time calculated to gain partizan gain. That will bring repercussions, especially given the Tokyo Mod Pent incident.

I'm going to go with, yes, treating animals harshly is very bad, but still not on the scale of raping little girls. What I find hard to swallow is the, I'm pretty certain, blinding hypocrisy of it. Naked partisan is one thing. When you know damn well the nature of European dressage training, its difficult to stomach. i'm perfectly content that Dujardin is banned, and Hester is investigated. Good. But I damn well hope the Dutch get what's coming to them too.

I suspect the reality is that this use of the whip on legs is absolutely the standard practice. And on the lower end of it, frankly, if you've read up on Rollkur. But, as you say, like pro wrestling, you're not supposed to let it out. The parallels with Strictly Come dancing are astonishing. In which case, I suspect we will see over the next few years something of a revenge mission against the Dutch. You don't break Kayfabe.

No, its not. Dressage is a bit like Strictly Come Dancing/Dancing with the Stars - a big glittery smile covering a lot of unpleasant behaviour - even here, the whistleblower appears to be doing it and timing it for the most personal gain (obviously seems to be coming from the dutch dressage community). There are no good guys here.

Ockham's razor with a touch of cui bono, innit.

Apparently it has come to light from the Dutch. So that suggests a fairly obvious motivation.

Given Dutch dressage training practices historically, it stinks to high heaven. Sadly this looks like the Dutch sporting establishment once more showing it's a pretty tawdry group of people. This isn't about animal welfare. It's about naked self interest. Just like picking the rapist. Edit: sorry, get it right, CHILD rapist.

Will you quit with this crap. There is no suggestion of that, that is not the issue. What is your obsession with making up funding stories?

Indeed. The latter puts the sport at risk - even if it might be closer to the truth. there are many in the Olympic movement who are genuinely uncomfortable with any animals being used in sport, and certainly Olympic sport - leaving aside the expense of horse sport and the perception of it as an elite, white sport - the animal welfare aspects of it are becoming more and more controversial - even riding a horse AT ALL is anathema to some who brook no arguments about how the animals are bred for it and would die out without it - see also, cattle re veganism. It's the same urge that questions the existence of things like the Grand National. i hold my hand up as someone who doesn't really care about Dressage as a sport, while admiring the abilities, and worrying about the welfare. As someone I suspect cares very, very deeply, Dujardin (and Hester) will know what needs to be done to avoid worse damage for the sport - if nothing else, Dujardin probably has a training career to save.

The IOC is not particularly fond of equestrianism. We saw what happened in Modern Pentathlon. Dressage is notoriously rough on horses; the Germans and Dutch have both been criticised in the past for how the Horses are made to do what they do - there's a whole thing about training technique called Rollkur and the shape of the horses neck - GBR's recent ascendency in the sport was a very feel good story, but the reality is that elevation has probably involved some pretty harsh treatment - Dressage isn't realy possible any other way, frankly. I supect the reason Charlotte has done a mea culpa here - and forgive the politicking - but she knows as well as everyone else that rough, even cruel, treatment of horses in Dressage is very, very common at the elite end. If she's been caught hurting a horse (which seems the most likely explanation for all this), possibly by videos from animal rights people, then as one of the generational riders of the era, it creates a genuinely existential crises for Olympic dressage. Pressure from the IOC to 'do a Modern pentathlon' would be immense. Taking the fall in a personal sense may be about saving the sport, not punishing herself. consider: https://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/open-letter-to-the-fei-describes-abuse-in-dressage-as-a-wake-up-call-850538

Pogacar had the chance to go for a Golden Triple Crown, something even Mercks and Roche could never claim - the Pink, the Yellow, The Gold, the Rainbows (and the Doyenne of course) it would have stamped it as the greatest season of the greatest rider in history. To let that extremely rare, most likely only, chance pass out of spite and a huff.... Note how Steffi Grafs 'Golden Slam' pretty much sealed her fame, even if she didn't realise at the time it would. You don't pass up these chances.

Kiessenhofer remains one of my favourite ever Olympic stories, and a great demonstration why the odd radio-less race is to be welcomed - it just shakes up the dynamic. She literally attacked at the gun, and somehow Keyser Soze'd the entire peloton, convincing the hugely strong dutch in particular that she didn't exist! that may stick in some minds this time around and make the stronger teams jumpy and over excited; by the time we get to the business end the peloton could be in chaos.

I have a vague memory that its staff room was gutted relatively recently

Sometimes 10 gold sometimes 5... Dear god, for Ireland to have those sort of ambitions, we'd have to have actual bloody leprechauns over there right now making the f*****s for us!

Hmmm...NOCs are notoriously good at holding a grudge. Pog may find, if this is true, that he doesn't necessarily get another chance.

Without meaning to be rude about our piscine crew, swimmers at the Olympics are absolutely notorious. Given the relatively monastic life required prior to the Games, the hard bodies created, the week with complete time to kill, it is not entirely to be unexpected...

This one's funny. No idea whatsoever how this got through the subeditors...Bulgaria??? All I can say is the world awaits to see the miracles pulled off by Kevin Penev.

Never ceases to amaze me the lack of research well paid sports journos in America do on international sport. Half expect them to predict Steve Redgrave to win the men's Pair, and Russia to dominate the gymnastics.