Monzanator

1 minute ago, Olympian1010 said:

Didn’t say we had to do with gender-on-gender, I just said that there’s not point to having the gender relays.

Athletes who are like #4 or #5 or any team would disagree. If you only want two best per nation for a mixed relay then it hurts the depth of the roster. If you're #5 then you have no shot of making the team. Several lesser athletes have thrived in the relays which helped their status for individual races (Peter Sendel or someone like that).

1 minute ago, Agger said:

 

TV stations cares about viewer numbers!  Without viewers, no commercial interest

We can afterall see other events getting longer and longer (at least more cycling races are broadcasted in full length though I'm certain that many would say that there's nothing more boring than a 220km long sprinters stage)

Even though Swedish biathlon experts are against getting rid of individual, they admit that it may be the most boring for many.

 

Of course there's commercial interest here, but still ignoring everybody who feels that competitions are complicated/uninteresting or even talking down to them doesn't really change anything!

For me individual is the most interesting race though. No counting the chickens like i.e. Eckhoff or Herrmann can afford to miss twice and still win by 30 secs.

2 minutes ago, Olympian1010 said:

But we don’t know any of that, until we were to try such a thing, we wouldn’t know the consequences. 
 

People hate that you can’t “game” the rules under VAR. 

And in Japan they make hamburgers from grass. You really want to eat grass and call it ham?

1 minute ago, Olympian1010 said:

 

Both great points  I would definitely take away from some of the external challenges of shooting. Hypothetically, should laser rifles be introduced, maybe we should make the targets smaller to compete the challenge?

The external challenge is what makes the whole sport exciting though! You can't have it all perfect all the time. Hell, New Orleans Saints must play in Green Bay outdoors in the snow and nobody says "it's unfair"

Just now, heywoodu said:

 

 

Athletes not needing/having their personal rifle would actually be something I'm in favour of. It's such a huge obstacle for smaller nations to even have a decent rifle.

Either you're IN or you're OUT though? What about alpine skiing and custom made skis for top stars? It's a tech race everywhere! In ski jumping it's down to material for the suits and those damn boots again this season. Let's don't fool ourselves everyone has an equal chance because it's not the case.

Just now, heywoodu said:

 

The amount of times I've gotten a message saying this or that miss was "on the edge" is uncountable  At least that wouldn't be an issue with laser rifles, or less so, but I doubt that's a good thing.

VAR was supposed to fix the bitching about referee mistakes in football and look, there is more bitching about VAR now. The idea of "fixing" or "improving" something looks good on paper but then reality kicks in. The same will happen if biathlon even thinks of laser rifles. And will the athletes use their personal rifle all the time like today? Obviously not IMO.

1 minute ago, Olympian1010 said:

How so? (I’m not really aware of the issue there)

Have you ever heard of split rounds in biathlon?

Just now, Olympian1010 said:

Iron Mountain stays opened because the Free Ski community likes to use it for insane stunts. In fact they went so far as to repair parts of the hill a few years ago. 

Ski jumping is way bigger in Poland than USA. Reports are 2020 could have been the last year of FIS Cup events. Climbing the hill by foot shouldn't take place in XXI century. Without the elevator Iron Mountain has no chance of hosting World Cup events anytime soon. Someone who preaches change should embrace that.

If you want "insane stunts" rather than World Cup that's your choice. I bet incidents of people breaking legs or necks won't make the global news though.

1 minute ago, Olympian1010 said:

You’re the one of made it personal to begin with. Don’t dish what you can’t take. 
 

Also, your recent elections didn’t really prove me wrong...

 

Never called you “a crying little bitch”, I stereotyped it to generation like you did mine. 
 

At least we agree that Biathlon is the best winter sport 

Please go insult someone else. PLEASE!!!!

1 minute ago, heywoodu said:

 

Pretty much the entire top of the world of ski jumping goes to Japan without a problem though. The issue is not 'leaving Europe', the bigger issue is the USA doesn't have it's things in order. 

Yep, Steamboat Springs is dead and Iron Mountain hasn't done any improvements since 1996. It's a miracle it hasn't ended like Harrachov yet.

1 minute ago, Olympian1010 said:

And if sports changes in the slightest you’re generation becomes a bunch of crying little bitches that preach the end of days! You complain about the younger generation constantly, without even trying what we suggest. I love distance events. The only sports I do are distance events. The 50km still exists, it’s just been improved.

 

The world has changed. People are busy and have less “free time”. It shouldn’t mean the end of distance events, but we have to find ways to cater to new fans.

You're fighting another political war. I'm OUT.

Go insult someone else. You have insulted me enough already with the "Poles are racist pricks" comments so I should have known better.

Now you're calling me a crying litte bitch. Geez, just how evil are you?

You've ruined the thread about the best winter sport there is.

Just now, Agger said:

 

Nobody's trying to, but one thing is thinking so yourself, another is caring about others (once again, I don't disagree with you, but (apparently unlike you) I understand why others think otherwise.

TV stations only think about themselves though and their precision time window. If you're so focused on what other think do you realize what's the real reason the 50k time trial was canned and hell, even 10km time trial looks like too long? They got rid of the skiathlon too.

Sprints are great for TV. Three minutes of racing and five minutes or TV commercials. No wonder TV loves this format so much.

Just now, Olympian1010 said:

Never said we should be “getting rid of tradition”, but I think tradition can be modified. Everything changes overtime, it’s essentially a “law” even though it isn’t. We can either adapt to change, or continue to live in a lesser age. Sometimes change isn’t good, but we can’t definitively know until we’ve tried.

I have seen the change already. 10k mass start in cross country. And Johaug still wins. The more things change the more they stay the same

2 minutes ago, heywoodu said:

 

Slopestyle drags on forever though  

Then I bet Olympian doesn't watch it

3 minutes ago, Olympian1010 said:

Well, yeah. People here are drawn to those sports because they’re new and they adapt over time. We’ve also had much more success in them, and our ski resorts are tailored to them. Cross Country skiing requires facilities that are hard to keep up in many parts of the US, and world tours for both Cross Country Skiing and Nordic Combined/Ski Jumping refuse to come to the US or Canada.

Iron Mountain doesn't even have an elevator along the ski jumping hill and you have to climb the hill by foot. Time stood still there since 1996. But they actually hosted the FIS Cup last weekend.

Over in Thunder Bay they have demolished the 1995 World Champs ski jumping hill complex already. It's tough to come there if there is no facility to begin with

Just now, Olympian1010 said:

Well, yeah. People here are drawn to those sports because they’re new and they adapt over time. We’ve also had much more success in them, and our ski resorts are tailored to them. Cross Country skiing requires facilities that are hard to keep up in many parts of the US, and world tours for both Cross Country Skiing and Nordic Combined/Ski Jumping refuse to come to the US or Canada.

I don't watch half-pipe, slopestyle or big air. That's boring for me. I don't know how the scores are made and why one 360 elevation is better than the other 360 twist or whatever. It's just outdoor gymnastics on skis. Very boring. But it doesn't last over 30 minutes so the millenials love it

1 minute ago, Olympian1010 said:

You’re generation’s greatest contribution to sports was dopped up athletes so...

 

I sorry I didn’t have 6 hours to watch a race 

Wrong. Even 50k time trial doesn't last 6 hours.

Like I've said, your generation is all about the short attention span BS. You have nothing to offer beyond that. If any sporting event lasts more than 30 minutes you are bitching about everything.

1 minute ago, Olympian1010 said:

It has more to do with the format. The sprint works because there’s a tangible loss when someone misses a target.  In individual you really have to be focused on the commentary, skiing, shooting to have any clue what is happening. 
 

Again, @Agger @Wumo and myself are pro-individual, we just think it’s understandable as to why people don’t like it. There may be ways to make it better for fans, but people so set in pointless tradition and old ways like @heywoodu and @Monzanator won’t accept that we should look at improving the event.

Since when getting rid of tradition is automatically an improvement? You will be old one day too and then you will be the one dismissed as pointless IMO

1 minute ago, Olympian1010 said:

We didn’t have speakers or commentary at the Soldier Hollow World Cup (at least not that you could hear). I do agree with @Agger that having to watch a race by looking a TV to see the skiing, looking at my phone to see the shooting stats, and using my tablet to look at the times is highly annoying.

Biathlon is a complete niche sport in USA. You used to be right up there in nordic combined too and it's like Steamboat Spring has fallen off the Earth or something now. The rise of freestyle skiing has killed all the traditional winter skiing sports in USA IMO.

1 minute ago, Grassmarket said:

In a time trial over a hundred athletes can start.  In a mass start, 60 maximum.  So they’d be getting rid of all the minor countries.

That's the whole idea. The big countries want to create a special environement where only they can dominate. Big nations, big TV markets, big money. Nobody wants someone from Kazakhstan as biathlon's top performer

1 minute ago, Olympian1010 said:

Which is why Individual should be kept on the program . I’m allowed to say “We should keep this, it’s just not the most interesting event”.

 

By decreeing the end of times, you’re showing your age too 

Your generation's ideas are usually short-attention span nonsense tbh. Break dance as Olympic sport takes the cake so far

3 minutes ago, Agger said:

 

Worrying about how it is to be a spectator is not BS! And it's not BS to think that it's complicated!

Having been to time trials in cycling, I have no doubt that it's complicated to follow the same thing with several laps and adding the shooting. It's not like there are big screens everywhere and with athletes more or less constantly passing by, spending time with the live timing isn't necessarily possible.

That's honestly where this site gets frustrating sometimes. We can all agree about the conclusion (remember, I'm strongly against how it's getting more and more about mass starts in and once again, I miss the good old individual 50km as well and I'm against cutting the individual in biathlon), but it becomes frustratingly automatic that because their ideas of a solution is bad, the reasoning is as well.

I'm sorry but nobody convinces me a 10k mass start is exciting and time trials are boring.

Time trials are getting removed due to TV demands. They want a short, sweet event with a fixed time zone. It has nothing to do with "fans being confused". TV doesn't want a three hour time window for a 50km time trial so they forced the mass start BS where you can turn away to show sth else at any stage. After all, you might as well show the start and the last 5-10 kms since it's all that matters. Nothing what happens between 1-45 kms really matters. You know the Norwegians will split the pack to 20-30 top athletes literally 5kms into the race anyway.

25 minutes ago, Olympian1010 said:

It’s more about having a tangible race. It’s not fin to watch something we’re bib 3 lays down the best time, and then isn’t reasonably challenged until bib 103. I love the individual because it makes places emphasis on the shooting for once, but people have a point. Time trial races are annoying to follow. 

That's pure blasphemy.

Your age is showing. You were born in the mass start era so you don't know what excitement time trial brings. You'd probably hate the 1998 WOG individual where Pieralberto Carrara shot 20/20 with Bib #3 and it took Halvard Hanevold with Bib #68 IIRC to surpass him.

Biathlon is heading towards cross country skiing where the fastest skiers will win all the time regardless of missed shots. Slower skiers will have no chance to be rewarded for a perfect shooting. Even now Lisa Teresa Hauser has no chance of a podium finish even if she hits 20/20. Nadezhda Skardino was probably the last of Olympic medallists who was rewarded for her shooting skills while being a mediocre skier.

7 minutes ago, Agger said:

 

To be fair, I would have to agree about individual being complicated to the spectator. If you don't have some live results, I would guess that it's pretty tough to follow it. You can see if a biathlete is fas, but you have no idea whether he/she has missed 0 or 7 shots making it a medal contender or somebody outside top 60.

 

Does't make me support cutting it, but I wouldn't discount that it may not be the most followable event for the spectators.

This is the same BS excuse they used to get rid of time trial races in cross country. Now even 10km is a damn mass start there. Totally pathetic.

It's 21st century, you got big TV screens in the stadium where you can follow the live results PLUS everyone has a damn smartphone these days where you can follow the live results. IBU's live timing page is a work of art where you can check everything instantly. Don't sell me "people are confused" crap because it's a complete nonsense. It's not 1979 anymore.

18 minutes ago, Olympian1010 said:

Anyone get the impression that this was the IBU altering fans to the fact they have a video game in development? 

 

I wouldn’t mind a good live results, course map, shooting stats app as well.

Speaking of video games featuring biathlon I played this one on my Amiga over 25 years ago

Biathlon was only available in full Olympics mode IIRC and the other events were mixed in between the shootings, alpine skiing downhill, ski jumping, bobsleigh and short track. CPU results were fixed (there were three levels though) and I remember Norway and Spain always finished 1-2 in biathlon unless you chose one of these countries yourself. I believe you could choose max. 4 human players.