Swimming at the Summer Olympic Games Paris 2024

[OlympicsFan 858]

On 8/4/2024 at 9:22 PM, Federer91 said:

 

Twice less Gold medals you mean, because the total medals are pretty much the same in all their last Olympics.

 

This happens, when you don't have superstars like Phelps and Lochte to anchor the team. In Tokyo, Dressel was this superstar, who held them, but this time we saw what happened when he wasn't on form. Their women were the stronger side, but they are also losing positions in some events.

 

I think this is maybe the first time in history, where the majority of the current swimming superstars are not American - Marchand, Pan, Popovici, Milak, Mcintosh, Titmus, McKeown, with the only exception being Ledecky of course. Unless Dressel somehow finds his mojo again. 

If Milak counts as a superstar, then you might as well count Douglass and Finke (and maybe Smith). I also think that in the past superstars like Phelps took a lot of pressure off the other swimmers, which made it easier for them to perform.

[ChandlerMne 1,041]

5 hours ago, dullard said:

So many complaints about Marchand being trained by an American but if you for interests sake remove Marchand from the results no American gains a gold medal so Bob Bowman training Marchand (and Kos) isn't why the Americans did so poorly compared to past Olympics.

I agree. General opinion in USA is somehow different. 

Probably lack of deeper knowledge about swimming overall causes that opinion.

USA doing poorly has much deeper roots than just Bowman's training foreign swimmers.

Some of their trials winners have ZERO international success. Or experience, FWIW.

[Noorderling29 167]

Non-US swimmers training in the US and winning multiple Olympic medals is nothing new. From a Dutch perspective, Inge De Bruijn comes to mind. She won 4 Olympic golds and 8 medals in 2000/2004, after she started training in the US. Same of course in athletics with many foreign athletes in US colleges.
So this can;t be the only explanation.  

[dullard 703]

3 hours ago, Noorderling29 said:

Non-US swimmers training in the US and winning multiple Olympic medals is nothing new. From a Dutch perspective, Inge De Bruijn comes to mind. She won 4 Olympic golds and 8 medals in 2000/2004, after she started training in the US. Same of course in athletics with many foreign athletes in US colleges.
So this can;t be the only explanation.  

It's actually becoming less common with many countries becoming increasingly able to train their own athletes at home.

[OlympicsFan 858]

3 hours ago, ChandlerMne said:

I agree. General opinion in USA is somehow different. 

Probably lack of deeper knowledge about swimming overall causes that opinion.

USA doing poorly has much deeper roots than just Bowman's training foreign swimmers.

Some of their trials winners have ZERO international success. Or experience, FWIW.

I think there should be a quota that college teams can only have a certain number of foreign athletes. In the past England had the same problem in football (too many foreign talents instead of producing their own) and Germany had the same problem in handball and basketball. It is great for your talents to regularly compete against the best foreign talents in training, but you need at least some protection for your own athletes.

[Noorderling29 167]

21 minutes ago, dullard said:

It's actually becoming less common with many countries becoming increasingly able to train their own athletes at home.

Our young 1500 runner Niels Laros had several offers from US Colleges, but decided to stay because the training facilities here were more than sufficient 

[Orangehair43 251]

 

[Orangehair43 251]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/article/2024/aug/05/one-and-done-michael-phelps-says-dopers-should-be-given-lifetime-ban
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2024/08/06/china-doping-complaints-michael-phelps-calls-for-life-bans/

[Orangehair43 251]

17 hours ago, OlympicsFan said:

a) When you can „legally“ swallow half a pharmacy thanks to TUEs, you don’t have to take illegal drugs to enhance your performance.

b) The way Shayna Jack was treated/welcomed back by her teammates tells you all you need to know about how widespread/normal doping is among teams like Australia.

c) The Chinese swimmers were cleared. If you don’t agree with the decision, you should direct your anger at the organization that cleared them and maybe consider a boycott.

d) How is the U.S. with 300 million people winning 30 medals without doping, while China with 1500 million people barely wins 10 medals with doping? How is Australia with 1.8 % of the Chinese population and without doping winning twice as many medals as China with all its doped athletes? Are all their (foreign world-class) coaches complete retards or are the Chinese just genetically inferior (swimmers)?

 

Bonus question: It is widely known that the GDR had widespread doping. Why did they dominate on the women’s side while barely winning any medals on the men’s side? Are there any nations that currently show a similar pattern (tons of medals on the women’s side while barely winning anything on the men’s side)?

Doping as a whole seems to help women more. The Chinese in the 1990’s in both swimming and Athletics. Eastern European doped women dominated sports in the 1980’s more than men.