[OFF TOPIC] Coronavirus Pandemic

[Olympian1010 8,299]

1 minute ago, Monzanator said:

 

Sometimes you have to use common sense and look at the people around you instead of viewing the world through "research" and other computer charts. Somehow I don't believe you can do this though.

I agree, but research is research for reason. The people that write these papers and run these studies are best experts in the field. They know what they’re talking about. I also agree that my “plan” wouldn’t work in every country because of the wide variance of prison systems and conditions. 
 

Common sense absolutely has a place debate and policy, but we should never value it more than science and research. I can, and do, employ common sense all the time, but I also use science, research, and personal experience just as much. 
 

I think the view you hold (and I don’t mean this as a slight) is a little one-sided. It’s clear that you could care less about prisoners. That’s fine, but bias can be dangerous. The virus spreading in prisons does pose a serious threat to rest of society. I don’t think it’s a good idea to write off the impacts of that.

[Olympian1010 8,299]

6 minutes ago, Monzanator said:

 

Economy takes a tumble, people are getting poorer - crime rate always goes UP! From domestic violence to theft and gun robberies that end with murder. Hello! Go and check some of the "research" if you don't believe common sense!

Absolutely, I’m not debating that, and the facts support that. However, research has also shown the strong social support systems can easily counter those effects. If we don’t try to breaking the prison pipeline, than it’s obviously going to continue to exist.

 

Going to back to what @Griff88 talked about. People will make a fuse (legitimately and fair) about a criminal who goes right back to his lifestyle. I would imagine however that Indonesia doesn’t really have a support system for prisoners when they return to society. So people have the right to be upset that this guy is stealing again, but they should also be asking themselves why he’s stealing again. I don’t think that’s a radical statement either.

[Monzanator 5,119]

7 minutes ago, Olympian1010 said:

Absolutely, I’m not debating that, and the facts support that. However, research has also shown the strong social support systems can easily counter those effects. If we don’t try to breaking the prison pipeline, than it’s obviously going to continue to exist.

 

Going to back to what @Griff88 talked about. People will make a fuse (legitimately and fair) about a criminal who goes right back to his lifestyle. I would imagine however that Indonesia doesn’t really have a support system for prisoners when they return to society. So people have the right to be upset that this guy is stealing again, but they should also be asking themselves why he’s stealing again. I don’t think that’s a radical statement either.

 

You're quite clearly patronising an Asian country - oh, by the way the most populous Muslim country in the world IIRC. That's a bad example. Everyone knows Americans think their way is the best way all the time. You didn't find an answer to why thieves steal in your "research"? I know the answer but I use common sense but I'm happy to learn what "research & science" tell us on the matter? Care to elaborate?

[Sindo 1,831]

Nobody should forget there are thousands of innocent people who are in jail for judicial system mistakes. It's around 1000 per year in Italy, and I don't think we are over the average in the world standing.

[konig 1,592]

1 hour ago, MHSN said:

 

If I'm not wrong here they already released more than half of prisoners, probably something like 60/70% , even though that was 2-3 months ago, now they are calling them back. no more holidays for at least some of them.

 

we had two cases of "prison break", one of them was kind of funny, apparently someone left some doors open and they just ran ! we had videos of prisoners running into the streets with underwear or things like that

 

 

very unlikely here, because there is death penalty for those crimes. this is probably not a popular opinion here in this forum but that's one of the few rules here that I completely support. human right is for humans, not for those kind of criminals.

Im a lawyer and support the death penalty from some cases, like you say, we are a probably minority here.

[heywoodu 16,461]

3 hours ago, Olympian1010 said:

Seems like a little bit of a logical fallacy there, but okay.

But the virus does cause massive unemployment, more so in some countries than in others of course, and unemployment very much does cause all kinds of problems, like mentioned there. People who die due to this whole situation don't only die from COVID-19.

[heywoodu 16,461]

1 hour ago, MHSN said:

 

If I'm not wrong here they already released more than half of prisoners, probably something like 60/70% , even though that was 2-3 months ago, now they are calling them back. no more holidays for at least some of them.

 

we had two cases of "prison break", one of them was kind of funny, apparently someone left some doors open and they just ran ! we had videos of prisoners running into the streets with underwear or things like that

 

 

very unlikely here, because there is death penalty for those crimes. this is probably not a popular opinion here in this forum but that's one of the few rules here that I completely support. human right is for humans, not for those kind of criminals.

The problem with death penalties is that you need to be absolutely, 1000000% sure someone actually did it, and there are quite a few people convicted who in the end didn't actually do it (or where the full story was different in some sort). Being that sure is basically only really possible if it's on camera or something..

[Monzanator 5,119]

13 minutes ago, Sindo said:

Nobody should forget there are thousands of innocent people who are in jail for judicial system mistakes. It's around 1000 per year in Italy, and I don't think we are over the average in the world standing.

 

Yeah, and Toto Riina was just a poor farmer  

[Monzanator 5,119]

1 minute ago, heywoodu said:

The problem with death penalties is that you need to be absolutely, 1000000% sure someone actually did it, and there are quite a few people convicted who in the end didn't actually do it (or where the full story was different in some sort). Being that sure is basically only really possible if it's on camera or something..

 

Inadmissable evidence can bail out anyone though. Being 1000000% sure is not enough More people have gotten away with crimes based on a technicality than actually being innocent

[heywoodu 16,461]

Murderers and rapists can get COVID-19 in their eyeballs for all I care, but releasing non-violent convicts (who are near the end of their sentence anyway) from an overcrowded prison to help keep the general population healthier should not be an issue at all. It's not great, but releasing those people a little earlier doesn't actually change anything for society (unlike releasing violent criminals, rapists, murderers etc of course).