Artistic Gymnastics 2020 Discussion Thread

[dcro 10,210]

10 minutes ago, heywoodu said:

 

That's a rather big misrepresentation of the situation. Drilling army recruits is not really comparable with abusing teenage (mostly) girls, by not one rogue coach, but coaches all over the world.

 

So i guess we should also do something about all those high school teachers whom teenagers don't like? You know, those strict/fair ones from whom you can actually learn something, as opposed to those soft/useless who just want to make everyone 'happy'.

[heywoodu 15,174]

11 minutes ago, dcro said:

 

So i guess we should also do something about all those high school teachers whom teenagers don't like? You know, those strict/fair ones from whom you can actually learn something, as opposed to those soft/useless who just want to make everyone 'happy'.

Like I said before about this coaching thing: there is a difference between pushing athletes (physically and mentally) and going way over the line. Humiliating, beating and just downright abusing teenagers is not 'pushing them to get better', that's abuse. If you can't balance on the extremely thin line in between those things, you're just not cut out to be a coach.

 

Spoiler

Except maybe in North Korea.

 

Just like the best teachers aren't those that keep telling everyone they are 'fucking stupid' if they make a mistake, and also not those who only focus on making everyone happy.

[Grassmarket 3,445]

21 minutes ago, heywoodu said:

 

That's a rather big misrepresentation of the situation. Drilling army recruits is not really comparable with abusing teenage (mostly) girls, by not one rogue coach, but coaches all over the world.

I’m afraid there’s a bit of a contradiction here.  On the one hand the media is constantly bombarding us with images of strong, confident, do-anything kick-ass women.  On the other we’re being told Olympic athletes can’t perform if someone says they’re overweight.  

[Olympian1010 7,989]

I’m going to have to join @thiago_simoes’s boycott if people are seriously going to try and justify athlete abuse. I’m sorry, but I have zero respect for anyone who believes it’s okay to abuse someone. It’s like @heywoodu said earlier there‘a a line that shouldn’t be crossed by coaches. There’s a difference between verbal abuse that aims to degrade an athlete, and actually critical feedback on a skill. There’s a definite difference between physical abuse that aims to punish an athlete, and physical training or instruction that aims to strengthen and teach an athlete. 

[Olympian1010 7,989]

31 minutes ago, heywoodu said:

 

That's a rather big misrepresentation of the situation. Drilling army recruits is not really comparable with abusing teenage (mostly) girls, by not one rogue coach, but coaches all over the world.

In fairness, the only difference is that slightly older, mostly poorer, teenage boys/girls are being abused.

[dcro 10,210]

11 minutes ago, heywoodu said:

Like I said before about this coaching thing: there is a difference between pushing athletes (physically and mentally) and going way over the line. Humiliating, beating and just downright abusing teenagers is not 'pushing them to get better', that's abuse. If you can't balance on the extremely thin line in between those things, you're just not cut out to be a coach.

 

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Except maybe in North Korea.

 

 

My point is, can you really take teenagers' opinions on coaching methods for granted?

 

I just cringe when I remember some of the complaints some of my fellow classmates had about those "awful strict teachers". But that's just how human (and teenage in particular) judgement works. When you are unhappy, it's so much easier to make up lies about the others as you go along, than take an objective look of the situation.

[Federer91 2,810]

On 29/07/2020 at 02:09, thiago_simoes said:

In rhythmic gymnastics all of these points are 10 times worse because the number of countries that are relevant is very small, funding is nearly non-existent, basically only post-Soviet nations are relevant (and Bulgaria, a country which some coaches are equally toxic), and gymnasts over 20 are almost universally seen as past their prime.

 

Are they toxic, because of your personal views on the matter or you have private discussions with the Bulgarian girls? Please share your contacts, i would very much like to meet them! Because they have always said the their coaches are like a second mother for them and are grateful for everything they have given them.

 

Rh gymnastics is by far the most popular sport for girls here. BY FAR. Every little girl wants to be like the Golden girls, because they are of our most cherished athletes in general. Everyone knows how hard it is to make the team. The girls know it, the parents know it. There is harsh training, there are many sacrifices, there are big regimes, there is immense pressure. Like in pretty much every other sport.. If you want to be the best, you can't dilly-dally your way. Everyone knows what to expect, it has never been a problem. 

 

Also, about the 20 thing. Don't know about other countries, but here, the statement that the federation/coaches dismiss the girls when the clock turns 20 is also a false accusation. In Tokyo Vladinova will be 27, Taseva almost 24. In Rio, half of the ensemble was 25. In London, Silviya Miteva was 28. Is Bulgaria sending these past their prime athletes, because we don't have anyone better ?!

 

Each girl retires when they want to. No one is stopping them deliberately, because of their age... They can continue how much they want to, but after 1-2 Olympic cycles they want to focus on other stuff, like finishing they education, starting a family, making a change in their life etc. 

 

Because in Rh gymnastic there is the Olympics and only the Olympics. The program is for 4 years. This is not football, volleyball or tennis with the Grand Slams, where you can say "Oh i will stay one more year". If you are 22-23 and don't plan staying for the Olympic cycle till you are 26-27, then there is no point in continuing. You are crafting 3 years the compositions and athletes preparation for the next Olympics. And the girls know this very well and if there is no help needed to make the transition, they are not staying for one more Euro/WCH that brings nothing. 

 

If you think (or want) the sport to be one of those, where we have the same names competing for 20 years, i'm sorry but it just doesn't work like that. The sport is not build like that. 1-2 Olympic cycles is what you get from the top nations. It can't be from 18 to 38, unless you are a small nation and that one athlete is what you only have.     

[Gianlu33 4,601]

On 29/07/2020 at 01:09, thiago_simoes said:

 

In rhythmic gymnastics all of these points are 10 times worse because the number of countries that are relevant is very small, funding is nearly non-existent, basically only post-Soviet nations are relevant (and Bulgaria, a country which some coaches are equally toxic), and gymnasts over 20 are almost universally seen as past their prime.

Italy isn't a post-Soviet country, but in the "Butterfly's Home" (the italian center for rhythmic gymnastics, when all the gymnastics live) our federation do strong psychological support to the athletes.

[Grassmarket 3,445]

Agree with Federer: in some Western countries there is a lot of funding for big (number of medals available) Olympic sports like athletics, rowing, gymnastics & swimming.  Competitors  in their teens & early 20s get paid much more than their non-athletic friends.  Unfortunately here in GB some of them have recently developed a new mentality that just because they are being paid big money & belong to a top Olympic nation then success is their right, and if they are not successful then it is someone else’s fault.  Also the media here is very forgiving, so athletes don’t often hear the criticism they deserve.

[heywoodu 15,174]

Eythora Thorsdottir has reacted disappointed at the suspension of the Dutch women's team: "We are being punished for something coaches did in years before." 

 

In which she does have a point, it's no use to keep the athletes themselves away from chances and competitions they very much want to appear in.