Doping Cases and Bans 2019 Thread

[Monzanator 5,111]

9 minutes ago, heywoodu said:

 

Ok.

 

I see you're not even defending or pretending your case so I'm sure I was 100% correct on this one

[phelps 8,695]

from any point of view people might look at it, today is just another very sad day for Sports...

 

we have one of the hardest sentence ever taken against a whole Country, theoretically and morally producing enormous damages but in practice being another farce, not really sweeping Russian sport movement and authorities away...

 

moreover, we have a political trial producing a political result against only 1 of those "big cheaters" clearly caught cheating, but the other guilty parts are still there (Salazar? NOP? they are not competing...athletes are..and people like all those who dominated middle distance running in the last few years are still there and still are the only medal candidates for the Tokyo Games...and of course this is only one of those major scandals that should have had a different exposure and countermeasures)...

 

so, we can't even think for a while: "justice is done", because that's not true at all...

 

really, just a very sad day bringing on injustice rather than justice...

Edited December 9, 2019 by phelps

[heywoodu 16,460]

1 minute ago, phelps said:

from any point of view people might look at it, today is just another very sad day for Sports...

 

Yep, but when fraudsters start covering up their fraud with more fraud, punishment has to get harder. Surely there will again be a host of athletes competing, don't forget there were still 168 (!) Russians who could perfectly fine compete in Pyeongchang. It's all nice and dandy for them to kick around crying like a child who doesn't get their preferred candy in the supermarket, but the blame really is 100% on the Russian authorities and their state-sponsored doping. DDR and Soviet-Union all over again without any shame.

 

Sure, one can discuss how WADA handles it, but that just takes away from the main point: Russian authorities fucked their own athletes.

[phelps 8,695]

3 minutes ago, heywoodu said:

 

Yep, but when fraudsters start covering up their fraud with more fraud, punishment has to get harder. Surely there will again be a host of athletes competing, don't forget there were still 168 (!) Russians who could perfectly fine compete in Pyeongchang. It's all nice and dandy for them to kick around crying like a child who doesn't get their preferred candy in the supermarket, but the blame really is 100% on the Russian authorities and their state-sponsored doping. DDR and Soviet-Union all over again without any shame.

 

Sure, one can discuss how WADA handles it, but that just takes away from the main point: Russian authorities fucked their own athletes.

 

sure...that's perfectly understandable...

 

but then, if you really can prove a whole system is corrupted from the head, then you can put on a farce like OAR and say: "OK...no Flag, no Anthem, but we let those people play just because we can get them personally"...

 

if they decided Russia must go as a whole Nation/system, they must not allow anybody from that Nation to participate under any circumstance (and even not allow them to change Nationality for any reason for the next X years)...

 

still, if you have to take such a Draconian decision, you gotta do it for all those who are in the same situation...not just one single side of the medal...

 

and once again, in any case, guilty or not, the fact itself that we came down to a point like this, it's the saddest moment of the Olympic history just because of it happening...

 

 

[Monzanator 5,111]

9 minutes ago, heywoodu said:

 

Yep, but when fraudsters start covering up their fraud with more fraud, punishment has to get harder. Surely there will again be a host of athletes competing, don't forget there were still 168 (!) Russians who could perfectly fine compete in Pyeongchang. It's all nice and dandy for them to kick around crying like a child who doesn't get their preferred candy in the supermarket, but the blame really is 100% on the Russian authorities and their state-sponsored doping. DDR and Soviet-Union all over again without any shame.

 

Sure, one can discuss how WADA handles it, but that just takes away from the main point: Russian authorities fucked their own athletes.

 

Is Kenya a state-sponsored doping too? Or because the country is poor their form of doping support doesn't count as statewide? I'm well aware the Westerners like you would only like to talk about DDR & Soviet Union (Russia) but it's not going to work, my friend.

[Monzanator 5,111]

1 minute ago, phelps said:

 

sure...that's perfectly understandable...

 

but then, if you really can prove a whole system is corrupted from the head, then you can put on a farce like OAR and say: "OK...no Flag, no Anthem, but we let those people play just because we can get them personally"...

 

if they decided Russia must go as a whole Nation/system, they must not allow anybody from that Nation to participate under any circumstance (and even not allow them to change Nationality for any reason for the next X years)...

 

still, if you have to take such a Draconian decision, you gotta do it for all those who are in the same situation...not just one single side of the medal...

 

and once again, in any case, guilty or not, the fact itself that we came down to a point like this, it's the saddest moment of the Olympic history just because of it happening...

 

 

 

Obviously they won't because they don't dislike Kenya as much as Russia for instance. It's all down to anti-Russian bias, there is no anti-Kenyan bias to speak of.

 

Today is a huge win for the Western World, probably their biggest win since the post-Cold War communist block collapse.

[De_Gambassi 1,369]

il y a 2 minutes, Monzanator a dit :

 

Is Kenya a state-sponsored doping too? Or because the country is poor their form of doping support doesn't count as statewide? I'm well aware the Westerners like you would only like to talk about DDR & Soviet Union (Russia) but it's not going to work, my friend.

 

They don't have a state sponsored doping system, more a dont give fuck doping system, which is not exactly the same thing.

 

PS: can you please stop your "westerner" crap. it's getting ridiculous.

[phelps 8,695]

1 minute ago, Monzanator said:

 

Obviously they won't because they don't dislike Kenya as much as Russia for instance. It's all down to anti-Russian bias, there is no anti-Kenyan bias to speak of.

 

Today is a huge win for the Western World, probably their biggest win since the post-Cold War communist block collapse.

 

well, I'd define myself as a true "Westener", but I don think and I don't feel like I won anything...really...

 

tbh, I feel like I lost a piece of myself, having my favourite entertainment (sports in general and the Olympic Games in a special way) broken, destroyed because of this decision...

[heywoodu 16,460]

6 minutes ago, phelps said:

 

and once again, in any case, guilty or not, the fact itself that we came down to a point like this, it's the saddest moment of the Olympic history just because of it happening...

 

 

 

Not many doubts about that.

[phelps 8,695]

8 minutes ago, De_Gambassi said:

 

They don't have a state sponsored doping system, more a dont give fuck doping system, which is not exactly the same thing.

 

PS: can you please stop your "westerner" crap. it's getting ridiculous.

 

Kenian and Ethiopian system are exactly State-managed doping...

 

don't look at the Italian and Spanish coaches/managers and doctors operating for their athletes...in those Nations nothing happens unless their sport minister/authorities allow that to happen...

 

we can say whatever we want about East vs West and all the anti-Russian feeling many people have, but we should look at things for what they really are...

 

and also situations like NOP or BALCO, even if technically are just private right institutions that put them on, they were/are acting exactly as a National doping system for the Countries benefitting for that sh*t...

Edited December 9, 2019 by phelps