[OFF TOPIC] Politics Thread

[bestmen 2,818]

1 hour ago, OlympicsFan said:

Yes, everything is a 

 

[hckošice 14,825]

So Donny Trump praised Viktor Orban as the greates leader of Turkey

 

“There’s a man, Viktor Orbán, did anyone ever hear of him?” Trump said, referring to the Hungarian prime minister.

“He’s probably, like, one of the strongest leaders anywhere in the world. He’s the leader of Turkey,” the former president said.

 

and if it was not enough, he kept rolling that he is magnificent and blabla despite his country is bordering Russia ... well, last time I checked the map neither of Turkey or Hungary was neighboring mother Russia...

 

but ok, Donny. As you wish ...

 

 

I do not know whom this man employs as his secretary and counsellors, but the pal must be something else

Edited October 24, 2023 by hckošice

[NMQ 243]

19 hours ago, OlympicsFan said:

I don't agree on this perspective. Argentina is in a pretty bad situation. If you want to have a higher standard of living, you have to take risks. Argentina is far away from pretty much every major market and of course that hurts them, but the same applies to Chile and they have a much higher GDP per capita. Argentina probably has a way too big population (The goal should be to reduce the population to 20 million people at most). I think Argentina has a lot of potential as an energy exporter (to Europe) (wind power -> hydrogen -> fertilizer etc., lithium). Maybe south american countries can form something like a "lithium OPEC". Maybe countries like Australia or Norway could be role models for Argentina. Argentina has roughly the same population size as Canada/Saudi Arabia, but not the abundance of natural resources of those countries. At the beginning of the 20th century Argentina was one of the richest countries in the world (8th most prosperous country in the world). The argentinian GDP per capita was way higher than the italian, japanese or brazilian GDP per capita. Nowadays agriculture isn't as important anymore, so clearly Argentina has to find a new business model. If you want to know what you have to do going forward, you first have to understand how you got where you are right now.

 

Some interesting quotes i found:

"Canada and Argentina were once equals, but bad decision by bad decision, Argentina declined."

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/commentary/article-canada-argentina-economic-output/

"Since 1950, Argentina has spent 33% of the time in recession, second in the world behind the Democratic Republic of Congo."

https://santandertrade.com/en/portal/analyse-markets/argentina/economic-political-outline

 

Some (potentially) insightful reads:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-05/argentina-is-dealing-with-100-per-cent-inflation-heres-how/102930048

https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/argentinas-lithium-pipeline-promises-white-gold-boom-chile-tightens-control-2023-04-24/

https://time.com/6275197/south-america-lithium-opec/

https://www.cpreview.org/blog/2023/9/the-rise-of-a-lithium-opec-should-latin-america-follow-in-the-footsteps-of-the-gulf-states

https://www.oxfordenergy.org/publications/will-argentina-become-a-relevant-gas-exporter/

https://www.ft.com/content/a3982bb1-75cb-4988-8677-07499337fbda

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/argentinas-vaca-muerta-shale-boom-is-running-out-road-2022-12-27/

https://www.agora-strategy.com/post/the-geostrategic-importance-of-argentina-and-brazil-as-partners-for-europe-1

https://hir.harvard.edu/argentinas-economic-downfall-which-party-will-save-the-citizens/

https://www.economist.com/the-americas/2023/10/19/can-argentinas-next-president-fix-the-economy-dont-count-on-it

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/BRIE/2023/753938/EPRS_BRI(2023)753938_EN.pdf

https://www.ft.com/content/778193e4-44d8-11de-82d6-00144feabdc0

https://www.hbs.edu/ris/Publication Files/LAER Introduction to Argentine Exceptionalism_3c49e7ee-4f31-49a0-ba21-6e2b726cd7c5.pdf

https://archive.nytimes.com/economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/06/what-happened-to-argentina/

https://manifold.bfi.uchicago.edu/read/case-of-argentina/section/9905ef24-8c94-42ad-adf7-068efb4d9afb

https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/fandd/2000/03/pou.htm

https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w19924/w19924.pdf

https://www.reuters.com/markets/currencies/argentina-dollar-love-affair-agonizes-over-divorcing-peso-2023-09-05/

 

We could be like Canada or Australia, but instead of a british colony we were filled with spanish and italians and here we are 

 

Seriously, yes, the country's economy has been a mess for the last 80 years as we still depend on agro exportations like a century ago while the world has moved on. And we had every type of government. Leftist, right and center peronists, weak non peronists center right and center left, military coups from every corner, and all helped to build this mess. So, in theory, a far right libertarian could be a good gamble as we have nothing to lose, right?

 

The little problem is the man is a madman sorrounded by freaks, that even if his economic ideas have some grounds, are almost impossible to follow given the state of power (and also the Constitution!), and let's not start with the social and cultural ideas and projects like breaking ties with "communist" states like Brazil (?) and also the Vatican (!), free posession of guns, to sell organs freely and even children  (there's no way they can be approved, though, but just that people can think about it is a bit scary).

 

We may be in a constant economic crisis that makes the country weaker and weaker in every aspect (except football ), but a lot of people still value the social standards of living, like public access to education or health, conservative issues like family and catholic values, and it seems we are still not desperate enough to give the keys to a Trump style guy who wants to turn everything upside down. But we'll see.

[OlympicsFan 858]

1 hour ago, NMQ said:

We could be like Canada or Australia, but instead of a british colony we were filled with spanish and italians and here we are 

 

Seriously, yes, the country's economy has been a mess for the last 80 years as we still depend on agro exportations like a century ago while the world has moved on. And we had every type of government. Leftist, right and center peronists, weak non peronists center right and center left, military coups from every corner, and all helped to build this mess. So, in theory, a far right libertarian could be a good gamble as we have nothing to lose, right?

 

The little problem is the man is a madman sorrounded by freaks, that even if his economic ideas have some grounds, are almost impossible to follow given the state of power (and also the Constitution!), and let's not start with the social and cultural ideas and projects like breaking ties with "communist" states like Brazil (?) and also the Vatican (!), free posession of guns, to sell organs freely and even children  (there's no way they can be approved, though, but just that people can think about it is a bit scary).

 

We may be in a constant economic crisis that makes the country weaker and weaker in every aspect (except football ), but a lot of people still value the social standards of living, like public access to education or health, conservative issues like family and catholic values, and it seems we are still not desperate enough to give the keys to a Trump style guy who wants to turn everything upside down. But we'll see.

I don't think that Argentina could be at the same level as Canada or Australia, but Argentina definitely should have a much higher GDP per capita. Canada and Australia (in my opinion) have a better geographical position (proximity to the US/Asia) and also more natural resources + they have the huge advantage of being english speaking countries. Argentina developing closer ties with China/BRICS probably isn't in the best interest of the US/Europe, so Argentina should definitely try to "blackmail" the most out of the US/Europe. Culturally Argentina seems much closer the US/Europe. To me it is interesting that Argentina (apparently) doesn't "attract" a lot of refugees from Venezuela. Maybe it will change if the US (under Trump) becomes less welcoming. Milei will/would have a hard time to get anything done when the institutions are working against him. It takes time to "restructure" the institutions and Milei might not be given the time to do that. It would also be interesting to see what Milei would do about the Falkland Islands situtation.

 

https://worldview.stratfor.com/article/geopolitics-argentina-superpower-wasn-t

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/blog-post/argentina-and-brics-port-storm-or-geopolitical-launching-pad

https://eprints.lse.ac.uk/120342/1/Gonz_lez_Levaggi_M_gica_Navigating_Argentina_s_BRICS_Entry.pdf

https://www.arte.tv/en/videos/103960-019-A/mapping-the-world/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/afontevecchia/2022/06/01/fear-uncertainty-doubt-a-paradigm-shift-for-argentina-geopolitics-and-cryptocurrencies/

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1391017/total-refugee-population-argentina/

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/09/10/falklands-islanders-rights-respected-if-javier-milei-wins/

[OlympicsFan 858]

19 hours ago, bestmen said:

 

"Half an ounce of gold. In the 7th century, that’s how much Christians in what is now Syria had to pay for the privilege of living under the protection of the Caliphate. If they didn’t want to pay, they had two other options: they could convert or, as some interpretations of the pact between Muslim rulers and their Christian subjects suggest, “face the sword.”

In February, the 20 or so Christian families still living in the northern Syrian town of Raqqa were given the same choice. The cost of protection is now the equivalent of $650 in Syrian pounds ..."

https://time.com/57168/christians-and-tyrants/

Edited October 25, 2023 by OlympicsFan

[bestmen 2,818]

10 hours ago, OlympicsFan said:

 

 

What are you talking about , large part of Syrian/Lebanese/Palestinian are Christian,  this religion is middle Eastern not European 

do you remember this Syrian olympic gold medalist in heptathlon "ghada chouaa" ...she is Christian 

[konig 1,504]

21 hours ago, NMQ said:

We could be like Canada or Australia, but instead of a british colony we were filled with spanish and italians and here we are 

 

Seriously, yes, the country's economy has been a mess for the last 80 years as we still depend on agro exportations like a century ago while the world has moved on. And we had every type of government. Leftist, right and center peronists, weak non peronists center right and center left, military coups from every corner, and all helped to build this mess. So, in theory, a far right libertarian could be a good gamble as we have nothing to lose, right?

 

The little problem is the man is a madman sorrounded by freaks, that even if his economic ideas have some grounds, are almost impossible to follow given the state of power (and also the Constitution!), and let's not start with the social and cultural ideas and projects like breaking ties with "communist" states like Brazil (?) and also the Vatican (!), free posession of guns, to sell organs freely and even children  (there's no way they can be approved, though, but just that people can think about it is a bit scary).

 

We may be in a constant economic crisis that makes the country weaker and weaker in every aspect (except football ), but a lot of people still value the social standards of living, like public access to education or health, conservative issues like family and catholic values, and it seems we are still not desperate enough to give the keys to a Trump style guy who wants to turn everything upside down. But we'll see.

Im not so sure for the last thing, i want to have a libertarian president and we dont have one since Marcelo T De Alvear and his goverment was in 1920.......

[konig 1,504]

On 10/24/2023 at 1:33 AM, Olympian1010 said:

So libertarians are in favor of the government saying what can and can't be taught when it fits their personal social ideology? I thought libertarians were all about personal rights?

 In fact, the libertarians dont want the state indoctrinating in any form, for that reason is a "ideal" to one day it wont be the state which the school curriculum.

If our sex education law has a conservative ideology it will has the same oposition.

 

 

[konig 1,504]

On 10/24/2023 at 6:34 AM, OlympicsFan said:

Personally i am not quite sure why many right wing politicians are so strongly against abortions. I don't believe that it has religious reasons, so the most obvious take would be to assume that they just want as much cheap labour as possible, which would hurt their voters (lowering wages). It is rather rare to see left wing politicians who are against mass migration and right wing politicians who are in favor of abortions ...

 

As far as I know minorities are less likely to vote for conservative politicians and they are also more likely to get abortions, so by banning abortions conservative politicians would hurt the chance of their party to get elected in the future.

In his case, he is close to convert in jewish and he is a little religious.

 

Its correct what you say in the second  paragraph but for a develop country like yours, in Argentina, the minorities dont have any special treatment escept the natives......and they are too few to think in them like a problem in the future for a conservative politician, in fact there is a peronist governor in a north province which name is Gildo Insfran who is very conservative and force the natives to vote him, taking off his documents and menace them, after they vote him, he returns their documents.

 

He is the governor of Formosa doing that after 30 years and go on.......

[heywoodu 15,141]

2 hours ago, konig said:

 In fact, the libertarians dont want the state indoctrinating in any form, for that reason is a "ideal" to one day it wont be the state which the school curriculum.

If our sex education law has a conservative ideology it will has the same oposition.

 

 

Sex education is not indoctrination though  

 

What's next, basic chemistry, simply maths and so on being called indoctrination?