[OFF TOPIC] Politics Thread

[Agger 1,663]

10 hours ago, Monzanator said:

 

I could have used the word progressive too   You're from Scandinavia so you think sociallism is a good thing, right? It seems like majority of Scandinavia is ruled by the democratic sociallists but hey, I'm from Poland and sociallism is the evil of years gone by

 

USA has never been ruled by a sociallist or a communist so these Sanders fanboys have no idea what they wish for IMO.

 

The thing is. I'm a social liberal, not a socialist or a liberalist. I'm proud of our system (and before you write the same thing you do every single time, I do NOT believe that it can be copied 1:1 to a big country like the US), but I'm in no way a socialist (though some right wing people would surely say that I am, while others say just the opposite). In fact back in the days my most likely 2nd choice would have been the conservatives.

I know that in most countries it's Socialism vs conservatism, but making liberalism the same as socialism is really wrong.

 

And you're blaming the liberalists or progressives for the decline of the liberal democracy. The ones disassembling the liberal democracies (some faster than others) are conservatives like in Hungary and to some extent Poland.

[Agger 1,663]

And by the way. Let's be realistic.

If Sanders ends up as the president, everything he does would be baby steps . The senate will most likely still be republican (a small chance for 50/50 while something big would most likely need to come up to give majority without the vice president) and even if it ended up democratic, he would need support from people like Sinema and Manchin who I don't see supporting the most left-wing ideas of his campaign. At very best (for his ideas) he would in some Trump-like way make changes to the party that would mean possible major changes in his second term but I don't see that as very likely (though I admit that I'm in no way an expert).

A congress with democratic majority is likely to happen again, but once again there would be plenty of opposition in the democratic party.

 

It's not like USA would become a Socialist haven in 2 years if Sanders is elected.

That is also what makes me not mind so much if he ends up winning the primary (though I believe I would personally vote for Buttigieg if I was in the US). I think more democrats would be ready to swallow their pride and vote for Sanders if he is the democratic nominee than Sanders supporters would vote for another democrat (especially if that democrat was Biden or Bloomberg).

 

[Blue Swede 8]

Point is though that Sanders is too far to the left to really be electable.He is like Jeremy Corbyn.Great enthusiasm amongst his supporters.Problem is that they are way too small in numbers and the vast majority is allienated from his politics.

 

I predict that Sanders will be the democratic partys presidential candidate and I expect Donald Trump to beat him with some ease in November 2020.

 

I am from Scandinavia,and I am national conservative.

Edited February 19, 2020 by Blue Swede

[Agger 1,663]

1 hour ago, Blue Swede said:

Point is though that Sanders is too far to the left to really be electable.He is like Jeremy Corbyn.Great enthusiasm amongst his supporters.Problem is that they are way too small in numbers and the vast majority is allienated from his politics.

 

I predict that Sanders will be the democratic partys presidential candidate and I expect Donald Trump to beat him with some ease in November 2020.

 

I am from Scandinavia,and I am national conservative.

 

 

May be true, but quite a lot of polling is questioning that. He has overtaken Biden in several polls on perceived electability and was the candidate most voters considered voting for in the post-NH debate poll from Ipsos and he is doing great against Trump in general election polling (though these aren't that useful at the moment). Corbyn lost just as much (if not more) due to his personality as the policy. Sanders is much stronger there.

Meanwhile we also have to remember that the participation at the General Election is rather low (somewhere between 50 and 60 %). It's not so dangerous to scare some voters away if you get others to actually vote.

Don't get me wrong, I am in no way saying that Trump won't win, I do question the chances to beat him as well, but there are still a ton of unanswered questions and others may end up differently than we think. 

No matter what, it would seem like the Trumpists will be there for the election in great numbers.

[Monzanator 4,525]

5 hours ago, Agger said:

 

The thing is. I'm a social liberal, not a socialist or a liberalist. I'm proud of our system (and before you write the same thing you do every single time, I do NOT believe that it can be copied 1:1 to a big country like the US), but I'm in no way a socialist (though some right wing people would surely say that I am, while others say just the opposite). In fact back in the days my most likely 2nd choice would have been the conservatives.

I know that in most countries it's Socialism vs conservatism, but making liberalism the same as socialism is really wrong.

 

And you're blaming the liberalists or progressives for the decline of the liberal democracy. The ones disassembling the liberal democracies (some faster than others) are conservatives like in Hungary and to some extent Poland.

 

Yes, my stance on inability of copying the Scandinavian system into USA is quite clear and obvious.

 

As for conservatives being responsible for all the evil in the world, how do you explain the rise of AfD in Germany directly after Angela Merkel opened the doors for millions of immigrants? As for Poland, well, our government wants a return of the authoritarian rule and it's doing whatever it can to distance themselves from the EU bureaucrates in Brussels The very same bureaucracy basically caused Brexit already.

[Agger 1,663]

12 minutes ago, Monzanator said:

 

Yes, my stance on inability of copying the Scandinavian system into USA is quite clear and obvious.

 

As for conservatives being responsible for all the evil in the world, how do you explain the rise of AfD in Germany directly after Angela Merkel opened the doors for millions of immigrants? As for Poland, well, our government wants a return of the authoritarian rule and it's doing whatever it can to distance themselves from the EU bureaucrates in Brussels The very same bureaucracy basically caused Brexit already.

 

But they surely enjoy the money from EU

[Monzanator 4,525]

Just now, Agger said:

 

But they surely enjoy the money from EU

 

Everyone does. But if it came down to taking less money from EU but to stop Brussels from telling Law & Justice what to do, they'd be very happy with it.

[Agger 1,663]

2 minutes ago, Monzanator said:

 

Everyone does. But if it came down to taking less money from EU but to stop Brussels from telling Law & Justice what to do, they'd be very happy with it.

 

There's just something beautiful about taking money while moving away from the principles accepted when joining.

[Monzanator 4,525]

Just now, Agger said:

 

There's just something beautiful about taking money while moving away from the principles accepted when joining.

 

Well, Yalta conference & Iron Curtain cast a very long shadows

[LowerSaxony 205]

33 minutes ago, Monzanator said:

But if it came down to taking less money from EU but to stop Brussels from telling Law & Justice what to do, they'd be very happy with it.

 

But that is the deal when joining the EU. So, what's the reason Poland is still in when the EU money is not that important? In general, I am VERY happy with Poland being part of the EU, but what PIS does is simply bigotry. Enjoying all advantages including the EU money, at the same time seeding hatred against EU whenever it is opportune.