Judo IJF World Championships 2023

[heywoodu 15,181]

Why did Pinot not get that score in the deciding match in the team final?  

 

She threw the Japanese cleanly on her side/back and since it was golden score that should have been it, no?

[phelps 7,712]

1 hour ago, heywoodu said:

Why did Pinot not get that score in the deciding match in the team final?  

 

She threw the Japanese cleanly on her side/back and since it was golden score that should have been it, no?

paying the prize for Yesterday's Gold gifted to Riner...

 

it's a shame that the last 2 finals have been completely overturned by scandal decisions of the ref committee, after a week of great Judo with (almost) no controversy  

[heywoodu 15,181]

6 minutes ago, phelps said:

paying the prize for Yesterday's Gold gifted to Riner...

 

it's a shame that the last 2 finals have been completely overturned by scandal decisions of the ref committee, after a week of great Judo with (almost) no controversy  

Sure, conspiracies etc etc, but I'm sure there is an actual explanation as well  

[phelps 7,712]

4 hours ago, pedja789 said:

But it does happening, Italy doubled last year medal count, which was also a double of 2021, and in 2019. there were no medals. I think that you are overestimating Italian team, which leads to unrealistic expectations.

I don't think expecting Gold for Lombardo and Bellandi, Silver for Giuffrida and Bronze for Scutto and Parlati with that draw was unrealistic at all.

 

my opinion are based on results of the last years, especially on the head-to-head scores between our guys and their respective opponents in the Grand Prix/Grand Slam/World Champs tournaments.

 

p.s. in 2019 Lombardo, Parlati and Bellandi were just coming out of the Juniors (where they won the world title the year before).

Scutto is even younger (and we are waiting for Carnà, who's only 17 and already a Junior World Champion, but she's just moved up from 52 to 57kg and she's not ready yet for the big events in the new class).

the past is gone.

as I wrote, now we have a new generation of talent we never had before.

 

4 hours ago, pedja789 said:

If that level is "not in top 5", I think she is there. I don't know why are you underestimating both her and Keldiyorova, calling them clean highway. I would say that in a past year Keldiyorova performed better then Giuffrida. Giuffrida losing to Pupp gave here slightly easier path to bronze.

I'm not underestimating Keldiyorova, but I think Giuffrida is better than her (and she won the last couple of times they faced each other, after losing the first few direct matchups...sign that she's taken the right countermeasures).

Pupp is basically doing nothing on the mat every time she competes and gets sistematically overpaid by the refs.

she only destroys other people's judo, she doesn't have any real big throw.

and head-to-head results are there to show...Giuffrida always won easily against her at any level before last Monday (Olympic Bronze medal contest included).

 

4 hours ago, pedja789 said:

After Ono Shohei retired there is no "clearly strongest man" in 73. I remember Lombardo beat Abe once (Paris GS '19), when was the second time? And he is not the only man capable, but that is beside the point. He is definitively one of the best, which he proved to be in this competition. Same goes for Bellandi. Even if they both are the best of their divisions (I don't agree, but whatever) it is not that big of difference between athletes at the top in most categories. There are very few competitors that will win consistently against anybody, Lombardo and Bellandi ain't one of them, and I don't think they should be criticized for that.

I don't agree, but I give you the point on Lombardo.

 

but Bellandi...oh, man!

since she switched to 78kg, she's basically unbeatable...she only lost to Boehm and/or Wagner in the main events.

after last year's worlds, 3 consecutive wins in GS/Master tournaments before losing only once in the whole season in the final in Tbilisi against her bete noir Wagner.

she's 2-0 vs Hamada, 2-0 vs Tcheumeo, she owns Malonga (3-0 in the H2H with all the victories getting bigger and bigger), she never lost to the Dutch girls.

I don't know what someone has to do to be named the best in the class on that day (given Wagner's absence).

if she wasn't entering the worlds as the main favourite, I can only think of a bias (and it's not mine).

[phelps 7,712]

19 minutes ago, heywoodu said:

Sure, conspiracies etc etc, but I'm sure there is an actual explanation as well  

call it conspiracy, call it biased refereeing, call it a simple bad mistake (but after the video review by 2 different judges is it only a bona fide mistake?), call it like you prefer...

 

that's what happened: 2 awful ref calls (both by the same ref., mr. Camacho...is it a case?) overturned what should have been the true result of the last 2 events of the championship.

 

it's not the first time it happens and it won't be the last.

 

peace. tomorrow is another day.

[phelps 7,712]

Day #8

 

Mixed Team Event

 

Gold:  Japan

Silver:  France

Bronze:  Georgia &  Netherlands

[phelps 7,712]

Final Medal Table

 

 6 / 2 / 4
 2 / 4 / 2
 2 / 1 / 2
 1 / 1 / 0 (Russia)
 1 / 0 / 2
 1 / 0 / 1
 1 / 0 / 0
 1 / 0 / 0
 0 / 2 / 2
 0 / 1 / 3
 0 / 1 / 0
 0 / 1 / 0
 0 / 1 / 0
 0 / 1 / 0
 0 / 0 / 3
 0 / 0 / 2
 0 / 0 / 2
 0 / 0 / 2
 0 / 0 / 1
 0 / 0 / 1
 0 / 0 / 1
 0 / 0 / 1
 0 / 0 / 1

 

[pedja789 86]

1 hour ago, phelps said:

p.s. in 2019 Lombardo, Parlati and Bellandi were just coming out of the Juniors (where they won the world title the year before).

Scutto is even younger (and we are waiting for Carnà, who's only 17 and already a Junior World Champion, but she's just moved up from 52 to 57kg and she's not ready yet for the big events in the new class).

the past is gone.

as I wrote, now we have a new generation of talent we never had before.

That is great. But there is a new generation of junior world champions every year and old ones doesn't leave, they are still competing, and they are still good. If you expect the gap between Italy and countries like France, Georgia, Russia to close with one good generation... the future will bring you many disappointments. At this WCh Italy was better then Brazil, Korea, Mongolia, Azerbaijan... That is great result in my book.

 

1 hour ago, phelps said:

I'm not underestimating Keldiyorova, but I think Giuffrida is better than her (and she won the last couple of times they faced each other, after losing the first few direct matchups...sign that she's taken the right countermeasures).

Well, you don't have the correct information. In 2022 (breakthrough year for Diyora), Keldiyorova has beaten Giuffrida 3 times in a row (all of them GS semifinals), she lost only at the Masters in Jerusalem, she lost first 2 and it is 3-3 at the moment. It's not like my opinions are based on horoscope, I also base them on previous results.

 

As for Bellandi, I don't think I am biased, I don't really have a judoka that I like in that category nor do I have any reason to dislike her. In prediction contest, my guess was Hamada-Bellandi in first 2, I am aware that she is good. Perhaps I didn't pay enough attention to -78 in past year, and she is better than I initially thought, but unless she is some kind of an Abe-like dominant force I see no reason for her fans to be disappointed with bronze.

[heywoodu 15,181]

12 hours ago, phelps said:

call it conspiracy, call it biased refereeing, call it a simple bad mistake (but after the video review by 2 different judges is it only a bona fide mistake?), call it like you prefer...

 

that's what happened: 2 awful ref calls (both by the same ref., mr. Camacho...is it a case?) overturned what should have been the true result of the last 2 events of the championship.

 

it's not the first time it happens and it won't be the last.

 

peace. tomorrow is another day.

 

Right, I knew there was an actual explanation instead of just "it's a conspiracy/it's biased refereeing!" and those kind of things....found/received it 

 

Someone with quite close knowledge of judo on another forum answered my question and now that I saw the replay, it is clear: Pinot grabbed/touched Niizoe's leg during that move, which is not allowed and results in a shido, which was indeed awarded after the ippon was waved off (her second shido of the fight).

 

No conspiracy, no referee mistake, no referee deciding to 'correct' another result, just a judoka making an unallowed move and so not getting the ippon. All good.

Edited May 15, 2023 by heywoodu

[phelps 7,712]

24 minutes ago, heywoodu said:

 

Right, I knew there was an actual explanation instead of just "it's a conspiracy/it's biased refereeing!" and those kind of things....found/received it 

 

Someone with quite close knowledge of judo on another forum answered my question and now that I saw the replay, it is clear: Pinot grabbed/touched Niizoe's leg during that move, which is not allowed and results in a shido, which was indeed awarded after the ippon was waved off (her second shido of the fight).

 

No conspiracy, no referee mistake, no referee deciding to 'correct' another result, just a judoka making an unallowed move and so not getting the ippon. All good.

no, the rule has been changed recently once again because of many unfair calls in the past couple of years...

 

unless the leg is intentionally grabbed, there's no reason for the refs to automatically call the shido, if they see that there's no real rule infringment, they can let the action stand as developed.

 

and that was yesterday's case: there's absolutely no grab by Pinot, but only an incidental contact.

 

even Ylania Scapin (multiple Olympic medallist) said on the Italian TV that she undertands why they did make that call, but she was absolutely against it because it was totally against the spirit of the new rule enforcement.

 

and I agree with her.

 

there are always points where refs/judges can find a way to justify their doing, but it doesn't mean they're right "in the interest of the game".