Doping Cases and Bans 2019 Thread

[Dunadan 1,103]

The more I read on this, the more I think that Sun Yang should not be banned for this case and WADA is out of their mind.

[heywoodu 16,060]

4 minutes ago, Dunadan said:

The more I read on this, the more I think that Sun Yang should not be banned for this case and WADA is out of their mind.

Now I'm curious what you read for you to take this stance.

[Dunadan 1,103]

16 minutes ago, heywoodu said:

Now I'm curious what you read for you to take this stance.

 

No athlete should be forced to provide samples to three random people who show up claiming to be doping control officers or assistants. Now we know for certain from the previous panel and this hearing that, quoting from swimswam ( https://swimswam.com/breaking-down-sun-yangs-case-part-4-what-did-the-doping-panel-find/ and  https://swimswam.com/live-recap-wada-vs-sun-yang-fina-cas-hearing/) :

 

- the blood collection assistant was not certified;

 

-the doping control assistant behaved like an idiot trying to take photos of Sun Yang during the test (If I recall correctly, but I'm not sure of this, he turned out to be a former schoolmate of the DCO who "showed up in flip flops")

 

- the doping control officer did not provide identification, is a liar, but then admitted she was not correctly accredited

 

Quote

Sun is presented with the letter the DCO showed him to try to prove her authorization and confirms it does not include his name, or hers.

 

Quote

The DCO claimed people were rushing around and bumping into one another around the time test when in reality the video shows it was calm.

 

Quote

Popa confirms the DCO signed a document indicating the test had been aborted due to improper accreditation.

 

 

Now WADA is saying that the DCO can show up at an athlete's door with an unnamed "letter of authority" (not even the letter of authorization to perform the test) which does not need to contain the names of the athlete and of the doping control officer...this is completely crazy for me, anyone could fabricate (or get in possession of) one of those letters and the athlete has to accept to submit to the test.

 

Sun's mistake was to accept to get his blood drawn in first place, he should have run away. 

[Olympian1010 8,251]

13 minutes ago, Dunadan said:

 

No athlete should be forced to provide samples to three random people who show up claiming to be doping control officers or assistants. Now we know for certain from the previous panel and this hearing that, quoting from swimswam ( https://swimswam.com/breaking-down-sun-yangs-case-part-4-what-did-the-doping-panel-find/ and  https://swimswam.com/live-recap-wada-vs-sun-yang-fina-cas-hearing/) :

 

- the blood collection assistant was not certified;

 

-the doping control assistant behaved like an idiot trying to take photos of Sun Yang during the test (If I recall correctly, but I'm not sure of this, he turned out to be a former schoolmate of the DCO who "showed up in flip flops")

 

- the doping control officer did not provide identification, is a liar, but then admitted she was not correctly accredited

 

 

 

 

 

Now WADA is saying that the DCO can show up at an athlete's door with an unnamed "letter of authority" (not even the letter of authorization to perform the test) which does not need to contain the names of the athlete and of the doping control officer...this is completely crazy for me, anyone could fabricate (or get in possession of) one of those letters and the athlete has to accept to submit to the test.

 

Sun's mistake was to accept to get his blood drawn in first place, he should have run away. 

I was doping officer. I have no creditials, but every athlete that I was assigned cooperated at the fencing world cup. What they did is legal (except for seeking a photo). If WADA says they had the right documents Sun has to comply. 

[Dunadan 1,103]

Just now, Olympian1010 said:

I was doping officer. I have no creditials, but every athlete that I was assigned cooperated at the fencing world cup. What they did is legal (except for seeking a photo). If WADA says they had the right documents Sun has to comply. 

 

I don't believe that. You were doping control assistant maybe, not DCO.

[heywoodu 16,060]

7 minutes ago, Dunadan said:

 

I don't believe that. You were doping control assistant maybe, not DCO.

 

Definitely not DCO indeed. As you said, a 'valid' DCO has credentials and an athlete has every right - as stated by WADA in their own rules if I'm not mistaken - to deny a doping test if those credentials aren't shown. Thanks, that shines a whole new light on this case.

[phelps 8,337]

to be honest, this whole system of the out-of-competition test is crazy and violates I don't know how many laws and privacy rules in most Countries of the world...

 

considering that they don't have a single chance to catch the real cheaters with this procedures (they surely can't even enter Nations like China, North Korea, Russia or the same USA without keeping record of their arrival or without having asked for visa weeks -if not months- before, so the athletes who are supposed to take a test with no advice actually have all the chances to know they're coming well in advance), it's better to use money and other resources to develop more effective tests to be performed even with years of advice but capable of finding any single banned substance and trace of blood and genetic manipulation completed in quite a long period of time, so to be able to ask all the athletes to take a single test a year (just before their main event of the season) without all this whereabouts sh*t and at the same time to make it impossible for them to come at a global event under the effect of any sort forbidden practice...

[heywoodu 16,060]

Just now, phelps said:

to be honest, this whole system of the out-of-competition test is crazy and violates I don't know how many laws and privacy rules in most Countries of the world...

 

considering that they don't have a single chance to catch the real cheaters with this procedures (they surely can't even enter Nations like China, North Korea, Russia or the same USA without keeping record of their arrival or without having asked for visa weeks -if not months- before, so the athletes who are supposed to take a test with no advice actually have all the chances to know they're coming well in advance), it's better to use money and other resources to develop more effective tests to be performed even with years of advice but capable of finding any single banned substance and trace of blood and genetic manipulation completed in quite a long period of time, so to be able to ask all the athletes to take a single test a year (just before their main event of the season) without all this whereabouts sh*t and at the same time to make it impossible for them to come at a global event under the effect of any sort forbidden practice...

 

Out-of-competition tests are more or less the only chance to try and catch cheaters apart from a lucky break during a competition...they are absolutely necessary. 

 

Sure, cyclists and athletes go to a Spanish volcano, far away lands in South Africa or Kenya "because it's better to train there" (haha), and the system can always be improved, but no OOC tests should not be an option.

[Olympian1010 8,251]

16 minutes ago, Dunadan said:

 

I don't believe that. You were doping control assistant maybe, not DCO.

 

3 minutes ago, heywoodu said:

 

Definitely not DCO indeed. As you said, a 'valid' DCO has credentials and an athlete has every right - as stated by WADA in their own rules if I'm not mistaken - to deny a doping test if those credentials aren't shown. Thanks, that shines a whole new light on this case.

Yes, I had my position written down wrong in my volunteer records. Sorry about that.

[phelps 8,337]

Just now, heywoodu said:

 

Out-of-competition tests are more or less the only chance to try and catch cheaters apart from a lucky break during a competition...they are absolutely necessary. 

 

Sure, cyclists and athletes go to a Spanish volcano, far away lands in South Africa or Kenya "because it's better to train there" (haha), and the system can always be improved, but no OOC tests should not be an option.

 

sure, right now definitely we can't stop them...

 

but, as I wrote, sooner or later, with a bit of luck and a lot of investments, it might be possible...at least, I hope...

 

on the other hand, look at all the main doping cases of the recent past...they all came out only because of the olympic samples re-tests, but at the right time no one of them was caught (actually, some of them have not been caught also by those re-tests and are only supposed to have taken illegal drugs and DQed only because of that -with CAS calling a few of those disqualifications back after some time)...