[OFF TOPIC] Russia-Ukraine War

[JoshMartini007 2,813]

It's a combination of not being officially part of NATO or the EU, not having strong support from China, bordering Russia and antagonizing Russia.

[bestmen 2,913]

Putin said nazi , he means Svoboda this extrem right party 

[Vektor 3,326]

31 minutes ago, Vic Liu said:

I think many users don't understand that why some people blame US and NATO for this conflict. I will try to explain from my perspective in a moderate tone. It doesn't mean it's right or it's justified to initiate the war. I hope the war could end immediately and no more death to come. It's just people have different view about how it even began.

 

NATO told Ukraine it could be a member in 2008 and Ukraine began its illusion it literally could become a NATO member ever since. So many years, US and other NATO countries never give clear message to Ukraine but give meaningless verbal support. The point is that it gives Ukraine bravery to counter Russia and even write it inside the constitution to become NATO member which is definitely intolerable for Russia. Without solid and concrete support from west, no post-USSR country should ever try this. US gave Ukraine fake hope, fake courage to provoke Russia instead of itself. US is hiding behind a weak proxy with meaningless support. There are some strategy equilibrium between major powers and have to appreciate each other's bottom line. Anyone who tries to break it has to think twice if I can take the consequences. If USA tells Ukraine clearly that I will not accept you as NATO member and if you have war with Russia I will stand by, I think Ukraine will choose to be like Finland and we will not see the conflict today.

I mean, personally I do understand this. I have said in 2014 that if Ukraine will continue to go down this path towards the West there will be Russian tanks in Kyiv. I am only surprised about that it took 8 years to reach this point because it seemed so inevitable that one way or another Russia will put a puppet in charge of Ukraine, either via a civil war or an invasion. They will never let Ukraine go, or at least not until they will be too powerless to stop them, just like how they didn't let us go in 1956 and we had to wait decades.  And I know it well that there weren't any good intentions from the West, it's all an endless fight for power, they just hide behind the buzzwords of "democracy" and "freedom" to pretend that they are morally superior. I have no doubts about that US will be one of the biggest beneficiaries of this war, this was always a win-win situation for them where they either gain a very valuable NATO ally or they profit from yet another proxy war.

[bestmen 2,913]

one thing is sure , after this assault 20-30  years of cold war is coming , the world will not be the same anymore

[Grassmarket 4,156]

16 minutes ago, bestmen said:

Putin said nazi , he means Svoboda this extrem right party 

Salami tactics, an old Russian speciality.  Ask a  what “salami tactics” are.

 

Another old tactic. “Frightened citizens in neighbouring country ask brave Russian troops to fraternally intervene”.  First used in  1920.

[dcro 10,210]

32 minutes ago, Vic Liu said:

Or like Mongolia, Kazakhstan. Have relatively good relationship with US, Russia and China at the same time.

Kazakhstan has their resources, and at the same time they are hosting the Russian spaceport among other things ever since their independence. It's the cards they have been dealt with and they are playing it right. Mongolia, well, has nothing but China and Russia to choose from.

 

Ukraine though is in Europe. They have strong links with the likes of Poland, Romania, Hungary, who are all EU+NATO members with economy benefits which Ukraine does not have. Heck, the Western Ukraine was basically Poland before the WWII. For me it's understandable why their chosen representatives have decided to follow that path, one way or another.

 

[Grassmarket 4,156]

4 minutes ago, dcro said:

Kazakhstan has their resources, and at the same time they are hosting the Russian spaceport among other things ever since their independence. It's the cards they have been dealt with and they are playing it right. Mongolia, well, has nothing but China and Russia to choose from.

 

Ukraine though is in Europe. They have strong links with the likes of Poland, Romania, Hungary, who are all EU+NATO members. Heck, the Western Ukraine was basically Poland before the WWII. For me it's understandable why their chosen representatives have decided to follow that path, one way or another.

Western Ukraine was never part of Russia from literally the Mongol invasions until 1939 & the Nazi-Soviet Pact.  Strangely enough, we hear a lot from Putin about Ukrainian Nazis, but not so much about the glorious Nazi-Soviet alliance of August 1939-July 1941, which gave the Western Ukraine to Russia for the very first time.

[dcro 10,210]

5 minutes ago, Grassmarket said:

Western Ukraine was never part of Russia from literally the Mongol invasions until 1939 & the Nazi-Soviet Pact.  Strangely enough, we hear a lot from Putin about Ukrainian Nazis, but not so much about the glorious Nazi-Soviet alliance of August 1939-July 1941, which gave the Western Ukraine to Russia for the very first time.

Right. Galicia and Bukovina were part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire for a while. We shared many maps with them.

[Vektor 3,326]

10 minutes ago, Grassmarket said:

Western Ukraine was never part of Russia from literally the Mongol invasions until 1939.

In fact the most Western part of Ukraine (Zakarpattia) was Hungarian territory for 1000 years. I have already seen some crazy revisionists who think that this our opportunity to take some our lost land back. Imagine being so crazy that you think Putin would give land to a NATO state, or to think that Hungary would gain anything with Zakarpattia.

[Grassmarket 4,156]

5 minutes ago, Vektor said:

In fact the most Western part of Ukraine (Zakarpattia) was Hungarian territory for 1000 years. I have already seen some crazy revisionists who think that this our opportunity to take some our lost land back. Imagine being so crazy that you think Putin would give land to a NATO state, or to think that Hungary would gain anything with Zakarpattia.

Many goats.