[OFF TOPIC] Politics Thread

[Monzanator 4,503]

10 minutes ago, Olympian1010 said:

Well I haven’t done the first too, and don’t plan too. The third didn’t occupy much of time, and to be honest that relationship wasn’t healthy. The only other girl I wanted to be with (since 2nd grade, who I still have feelings for to this day) dates pretty much every guy besides me. My generation is woke, what can I say. It’s also worth pointing out that I hung out with mostly “nerds”, and a fewer of the non-jock athletes. 
 

 

Most social science “peeps” are liberal. I think the subject matter is more suited to people that are open minded. However, there are plenty of conservatives in social science too. You’ll also find that more university graduates tend to identify as liberal rather than conservative. Conservatism is politics of fear and nationalism, and I think an education can be preventive towards those feelings. I also want to be perfectly clear, people experiences generally shaped their political affiliation more than anything else. What I’m saying is just stereotypes, and I am by no means trying to say that one side is right or wrong. I’m just offering an explanation for why social science majors tend to be more liberal.

 

I respect your opinion, and we actually seem to have some agreements here. I would add that their are people in my generation who do know how to have genuine communication and debate. On this forum, I’m not a good example of that because I don’t have to worry about posting some of my more “extreme” viewpoints, since there isn’t really any actual consequences for that. I also do a poor job of being a good debater since I seem to be the only vocal liberal around here (maybe besides @Agger or @ofan, but I tend to debate/argue much more than they do).

 

Can't blame Poland for being conservative after 123 years of Russian/Austrian/German occupation - a mere 20 year break - and 40 more years of Russian communist occupation. You will never understand that and it's the main reason why Poland isn't as liberal as some of the Western countries to say the very least. We've had enough of foreign influence in our history to be so nationalistic right now. And yeah, this is OUR experience as a nation. Imagine USA being under Mexican rule for 120 years with English being forbidden as a language and then we can talk about whether conservatism is such a bad choice  

[Olympian1010 7,977]

4 minutes ago, Monzanator said:

 

Can't blame Poland for being conservative after 123 years of Russian/Austrian/German occupation 

No I cannot.

 

5 minutes ago, Monzanator said:

 

a mere 20 year break

It sure was fun well it lasted though 

 

6 minutes ago, Monzanator said:

You will never understand that and it's the main reason why Poland isn't as liberal as some of the Western countries to say the very least. We've had enough of foreign influence in our history to be so nationalistic right now. And yeah, this is OUR experience as a nation. 

I get it. I don’t like it, but I totally get it. I just think there’s a difference between “Yeah were Polish, we are proud to be Polish, everything is cool when your Polish, let’s all get laid”, and “We’re Polish and fuck anyone who isn’t, white Poles are superior, long live white Poland”. 
 

9 minutes ago, Monzanator said:

Imagine USA being under Mexican rule for 120 years with English being forbidden as a language and then we can talk about whether conservatism is such a bad choice  

My Spanish (Español) would be much, much better in that case . I don’t actually think conservatism is all bad, the same way I don’t think democratic socialism is all good. I think they’re positive things gained from conservatism. However, I think conservatism can easily lead people to make decisions not based in reason, and against the general welfare (as can socialism, but I see it more in conservatism).

[Monzanator 4,503]

3 minutes ago, Olympian1010 said:

No I cannot.

 

It sure was fun well it lasted though 

 

I get it. I don’t like it, but I totally get it. I just think there’s a difference between “Yeah were Polish, we are proud to be Polish, everything is cool when your Polish, let’s all get laid”, and “We’re Polish and fuck anyone who isn’t, white Poles are superior, long live white Poland”. 
 

My Spanish (Español) would be much, much better in that case . I don’t actually think conservatism is all bad, the same way I don’t think democratic socialism is all good. I think they’re positive things gained from conservatism. However, I think conservatism can easily lead people to make decisions not based in reason, and against the general welfare (as can socialism, but I see it more in conservatism).

 

Nothing funny here. Polish was strictly forbidden in schools, offices and in public overall. Bismarck wanted to exterminate Poles the same way Hitler did some 40 years later. Private lands were confiscated, in the Russian zone you could be shipped to Siberia into the coal mines for singing national anthem among other things. Imagine some Mexican offical sending you to Yukon mines (and you're getting jailed straight away) for waving the US flag and then we can have jokes about nationalism being a bad thing . You will NEVER  understand why Poland isn't so happy to follow the German or Russian world order after all those years of oppression

[Olympian1010 7,977]

20 minutes ago, Monzanator said:

 

Nothing funny here. Polish was strictly forbidden in schools, offices and in public overall. Bismarck wanted to exterminate Poles the same way Hitler did some 40 years later. Private lands were confiscated, in the Russian zone you could be shipped to Siberia into the coal mines for singing national anthem among other things. Imagine some Mexican offical sending you to Yukon mines (and you're getting jailed straight away) for waving the US flag and then we can have jokes about nationalism being a bad thing . You will NEVER  understand why Poland isn't so happy to follow the German or Russian world order after all those years of oppression

Yeah I’ve read quite a bit about Prussian, English, and Soviet wars against culture. Many countries like Kazakhstan, Estonia, and Armenia meet similar fates to Poland. It really is sad. I will never truly understand what that feels like (at least hopefully), but I can try to imagine and sympathize with people who do. I will say that talking with you and @Vojthas has changed quite a few or my more negative views about Poland. 

Edited December 19, 2019 by Olympian1010

[Monzanator 4,503]

10 minutes ago, Olympian1010 said:

Yeah I’ve read quite a bit about Prussian, English, and Soviet wars against culture. Many countries like Kazakhstan, Estonia, and Armenia meet similar fates to Poland. It really is sad. I will never truly understand what that feels like (at least hopefully), but I can try to imagine and sympathize with people who do. I will say that talking with you and @Vojthas has changed quite a few or my more negative views about Poland. 

 

Well, it will take at least 50-60 years before Poland even resembles the liberal Western countries. The entire generation who still remembers - even vaguely - the communist occupation will have to die first (including myself). However with Russia still doing their best Empire impression with the likes of Putin in charge that fear you find so repulsive in conservative politics will never go away IMO. Hell, UK and USA are afraid of the Russian influence too but they have the English channel and Atlantic Ocean to cover their ass. If Russia ever decides to drop the hammer guess which country will be the first to fall? Of course Poland. Russia has nuclear weapons stationed in the Kaliningrad enclave and everyone and their mother knows it   Even the left-wing Guardian:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/18/kaliningrad-nuclear-bunker-russia-satellite-photos-report

[Vojthas 949]

Just to be precisely - I'm very far from being nationalistic. I feel myself a patriot, kind of centrist or at least centre-leftist. And knowing our history, I'd say more  - JUST BECAUSE I KNOW our history the Polish nationalism is so hard for me to understand. The "funniest" thing is talking about Catholic Church as the one that was the place where Polish culture was saved while all popes during those 123 years of non-existence were calling for obeying the laws of occupiers. Also the not-anti-nazi pope Pius XII wouldn't have rather supported Poles against Hitler.

Polish nationalism is also antisemitic - which is as surprising as Poles were on a similar way of being exterminated as Jews by Nazi Germany. Of course, there were Poles that collaborated with Hitler, as well as Frenchmen (Vichy), Brits (HRH The Duke of Windsor)...

And what's more important - Poland isn't that nationalistic as @Monzanator shows - the only truly nationalistic party would never have got into the Parliament without the coalition with other right-wingers - either Korwin-Mikke (you know, the sleepy old daddy from the EU Parliament) or Kukiz (rebelious, riotic rockman). The other "right-wing" has such a conservatinve, religious standards that it has two widows of the same husband (only one married in the church), the niece of the party's leader has three children, each with another man, not always the husband (there were also three of them I think), the chair of the Parliament's Family Commission has a child from cheating her husband... And is so anti-communist that the presecutor of the Martial law episode (1981-1983) became the judge of Constitutional Court last month. Not to mention such a Catholic mercy that their political opponents are called "communists", "thiefs", "worse sort of Poles", "treacherous muzzles" or "knaves"...

About the economy - the social programs, which are only to buy people's votes, because the country itself is not prepared for such a huge costs like 500 PLN monthly for every child, are so socialistic as they probably weren't even during the communism years.

No, @Olympian1010, I highly doubt you'll understand this nation. Quite a big part of it (about half) doesn't understand it either.

[Vojthas 949]

2 hours ago, Maxim Fastovsky said:

 

What's the difference between a democration and a socialistic democration? Exactly the same as between a chair and and an electric chair.

[heywoodu 15,145]

Now that we're talking about Poland: what's with this "LHBT-free zones" that's popping up in the media this week?  

 

Surely they're overreacting and that isn't actually existing so openly?

[Vojthas 949]

12 minutes ago, heywoodu said:

Now that we're talking about Poland: what's with this "LHBT-free zones" that's popping up in the media this week?  

 

Surely they're overreacting and that isn't actually existing so openly?

A newspaper which supports the current regime (and is also supported with their money) added to a few issues a stickers of LGBT-free zones for people to stick on their properties (shops, cafés etc.). That's how it started. Then some local authorities (mostly Eastern, so called Poland B, less developed, less intelligent, strong support of the ruling regime) introduced anti-LGBT declarations officially. I see that a voivode (representative of government in the region) awarded those authorities for that. And that's what the EU is protesting against.

Just another day in a conservative, merciful country, where people want Jesus to be crowned the King of Poland.

Edited December 19, 2019 by Vojthas

[heywoodu 15,145]

8 minutes ago, Vojthas said:

A newspaper which supports the current regime (and is also supported with their money) added to a few issues a stickers of LGBT-free zones for people to stick on their properties (shops, cafés etc.). That's how it started. Then some local authorities (mostly Eastern, so called Poland B, less developed, less intelligent, strong support of the ruling regime) introduced anti-LGBT declarations officially. I see that a voivode (representative of government in the region) awarded those authorities for that. And that's what the EU is protesting against.

Just another day in a conservative, merciful country, where people want Jesus to be crowned the King of Poland.

 

 

Even though I shouldn't laugh, because it's actually awful.