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[hckošice 15,099]

into Rio 2016 Taekwondo this week...

 

I have a question (maybe stupid)..

 

@MHSN our combat sports specialist, I want to ask your oppinion which system of repechages is the better or the most fair in your oppinion, the Wrestling with all finalists losing opponents against semifinal loser from the same draw, Taekwondo with all finalists losing opponents against semfinal loser from the opposite side of the draw or Judo with only the quarterfinalists fighting for 2nd chance in the repechage ?

[heywoodu 15,334]

  On 4/14/2020 at 12:50 PM, hckosice said:

into Rio 2016 Taekwondo this week...

 

I have a question (maybe stupid)..

 

@MHSN our combat sports specialist, I want to ask your oppinion which system of repechages is the better or the most fair in your oppinion, the Wrestling with all finalists losing opponents against semifinal loser from the same draw, Taekwondo with all finalists losing opponents against semfinal loser from the opposite side of the draw or Judo with only the quarterfinalists fighting for 2nd chance in the repechage ?

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Stupid question or not, I'm curious as well  

 

Personally I'd go for judo, where you at least have to reach a certain stage yourself - independent from who you've fought - to be able to fight for medals.

[Fly_like_a_don 1,112]

  On 4/14/2020 at 12:50 PM, hckosice said:

into Rio 2016 Taekwondo this week...

 

I have a question (maybe stupid)..

 

@MHSN our combat sports specialist, I want to ask your oppinion which system of repechages is the better or the most fair in your oppinion, the Wrestling with all finalists losing opponents against semifinal loser from the same draw, Taekwondo with all finalists losing opponents against semfinal loser from the opposite side of the draw or Judo with only the quarterfinalists fighting for 2nd chance in the repechage ?

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I'd say Wrestling and Taekwondo. 

 

Why? 

 

Because wrestling in Olympics has draw made from rankings which is not always right. Usually top wrestlers participate in world champs and continental giving opportunity to juniors and others in other  events. Meanwhile some nations with limited resources use the same set of wrestlers in all competitions.  I still remember when Sushil won silver at Olympics it was told in media if he wins first round he'll reach finals easily.

 

Similiraly having repecharge like that gives opportunity to prove yourself.

 

 

[heywoodu 15,334]

In the end repechages are just unnecessary anyway, with boxing (where two losing semi-finalists being too injured to compete again is arguably more realistic than in the other sports) as exception, possibly.

[MHSN 3,653]

  On 4/14/2020 at 12:50 PM, hckosice said:

into Rio 2016 Taekwondo this week...

 

I have a question (maybe stupid)..

 

@MHSN our combat sports specialist, I want to ask your oppinion which system of repechages is the better or the most fair in your oppinion, the Wrestling with all finalists losing opponents against semifinal loser from the same draw, Taekwondo with all finalists losing opponents against semfinal loser from the opposite side of the draw or Judo with only the quarterfinalists fighting for 2nd chance in the repechage ?

Expand  

 

I think you probably know it but still for info Taekwondo has no repechage system in all other competitions, that's only for the Olympics.

 

there is no perfect system, I prefer Olympic Taekwondo format, specially that bronze medal match against the SF loser from the opposite side of the draw.

 

but I think the old format in Judo was probably better, all semifinalist loseing opponents could have a chance for bronze.

 

in wrestling they tried so many different formats in past, some of them unbelievably unfair, (can you believe there was a guy who won all of his matches and still left the Olympics without a medal ? )

 

I follow wrestling since 1994, they tried so many formats

 

before 1993: 2 groups, double elimination, group winners to the final

1993-1994: direct elimination, everybody goes to the repechage except losers from 2nd and 3rd rounds !!! I know some wrestlers lost intentionally in the first round to avoid the world champion in the next round !

1995-1998: direct elimination, everybody goes to the repechage, that sounds fair but then sometimes you have to win 6-7 matches in repechage to win the bronze !

1999: group format of 3 or 4 wrestlers, with group winners and some of runner-ups advance, the number of runner-ups was based on the bracket, for example they wanted to have 8 or 16 or 32 wrestlers for the knockout round, (the ugliest wrestling match I remember was from 1999 WCH , when two wrestlers from Iran and Hungary both wanted to lose to avoid Adam Saitiev, the Iranian managed to lose but then the next day they found out their calculation was wrong and he was out)

2000-2004: group format of 3 or 4 wrestlers, with only group winners advanving to the knockout round

2005-: current format

[MHSN 3,653]

  On 4/14/2020 at 1:00 PM, heywoodu said:

 

Stupid question or not, I'm curious as well  

 

Personally I'd go for judo, where you at least have to reach a certain stage yourself - independent from who you've fought - to be able to fight for medals.

Expand  

 

you know Judo changed its format to this only when they started having a proper ranking system, now they separate top 8 in the draw, and they can reach QF without facing each other, wrestling has no proper raking system. with this format you may end up having two best wrestlers facing each other right in the first round and it happened so many times before.

[hckošice 15,099]

  On 4/14/2020 at 2:32 PM, MHSN said:

 

I think you probably know it but still for info Taekwondo has no repechage system in all other competitions, that's only for the Olympics.

 

there is no perfect system, I prefer Olympic Taekwondo format, specially that bronze medal match against the SF loser from the opposite side of the draw.

 

but I think the old format in Judo was probably better, all semifinalist loseing opponents could have a chance for bronze.

 

in wrestling they tried so many different formats in past, some of them unbelievably unfair, (can you believe there was a guy who won all of his matches and still left the Olympics without a medal ? )

 

I follow wrestling since 1994, they tried so many formats

 

before 1993: 2 groups, double elimination, group winners to the final

1993-1994: direct elimination, everybody goes to the repechage except losers from 2nd and 3rd rounds !!! I know some wrestlers lost intentionally in the first round to avoid the world champion in the next round !

1995-1998: direct elimination, everybody goes to the repechage, that sounds fair but then sometimes you have to win 6-7 matches in repechage to win the bronze !

1999: group format of 3 or 4 wrestlers, with group winners and some of runner-ups advance, the number of runner-ups was based on the table, for example they wanted to have 8 or 16 or 32 wrestlers for the knockout round, (the ugliest wrestling match I remember was from 1999 WCH , when two wrestlers from Iran and Hungary both wanted to lose to avoid Adam Saitiev, the Iranian managed to lose but then the next day they found out their calculation was wrong and he is out)

2000-2004: group format of 3 or 4 wrestlers, with only group winners advanving to the knockout round

2005-: current format

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I didn´t realize that about TKD. however I found it strange that the a guy who lost to player A in the 1st round fight againts a guy who lost to the player A in quarterfinal but then suddenly have to face in the bronze medal a guy who lost to player B in the semis

 

Interesting recap of wrestling that´s really quite a lot of changes..

 

Thanks for your answer

[phelps 7,797]

  On 4/14/2020 at 2:32 PM, MHSN said:

 

I think you probably know it but still for info Taekwondo has no repechage system in all other competitions, that's only for the Olympics.

 

there is no perfect system, I prefer Olympic Taekwondo format, specially that bronze medal match against the SF loser from the opposite side of the draw.

 

but I think the old format in Judo was probably better, all semifinalist loseing opponents could have a chance for bronze.

 

in wrestling they tried so many different formats in past, some of them unbelievably unfair, (can you believe there was a guy who won all of his matches and still left the Olympics without a medal ? )

 

I follow wrestling since 1994, they tried so many formats

 

before 1993: 2 groups, double elimination, group winners to the final

1993-1994: direct elimination, everybody goes to the repechage except losers from 2nd and 3rd rounds !!! I know some wrestlers lost intentionally in the first round to avoid the world champion in the next round !

1995-1998: direct elimination, everybody goes to the repechage, that sounds fair but then sometimes you have to win 6-7 matches in repechage to win the bronze !

1999: group format of 3 or 4 wrestlers, with group winners and some of runner-ups advance, the number of runner-ups was based on the bracket, for example they wanted to have 8 or 16 or 32 wrestlers for the knockout round, (the ugliest wrestling match I remember was from 1999 WCH , when two wrestlers from Iran and Hungary both wanted to lose to avoid Adam Saitiev, the Iranian managed to lose but then the next day they found out their calculation was wrong and he was out)

2000-2004: group format of 3 or 4 wrestlers, with only group winners advanving to the knockout round

2005-: current format

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that one!

 

the only fair repechage system...

 

I still regret those times...even if I don't regret at all that kind of Judo...

 

recently I had the chance to watch once again many Judo Olympic Finals from those epic Nineties and Sydney 2000 Games...and frankly I'm really surprised to see how much the fighting style has changed (and it's changed in a positive way) in this last 10 years...

 

even London 2012 seems to be held in another century because of the rule difference with today's sport...

[Olympian1010 8,069]

Repechage for all combat sport should be:

 

LQF1 v. LQF4

LQF2 v. LQF3

WR1 v. LSF2 - winner is Bronze Medalist

WR2 v. LSF1 - winner is Bronze Medalist

[Fly_like_a_don 1,112]

  On 4/14/2020 at 4:07 PM, Olympian1010 said:

Repechage for all combat sport should be:

 

LQF1 v. LQF4

LQF2 v. LQF3

WR1 v. LSF2 - winner is Bronze Medalist

WR2 v. LSF1 - winner is Bronze Medalist

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For that athletes will have to complete in all ranking events across the year or else be ready to face difficult opposition early in tournament. 

Plus no exposure for juniors and cadets.