Doping Cases and Bans 2019 Thread

[hckošice 15,130]

  On 12/9/2019 at 2:55 PM, Kirkpatrick said:

I meant more about World Cups, BBC article I read says "banned from all global sport", does that mean just the biggest ones (Olympics games, but maybe World Championships too?), or everything?

 

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No idea, but I doubt this will that strict. IIHF already announced Russia will host the Ice Hockey world champs in 2023 whatever will happen. IOC announced Russia will compete normally at the Youth Olympics next January, so..in final I guess, it will REALLY works only for the Olympics

 

but let see

[LowerSaxony 205]

  On 12/9/2019 at 2:44 PM, Monzanator said:

That's the thing. We can't let the Kenyan thing aside. If Russia is banned from global events then Kenya should follow suit. And yet some people like dcro here claim Kenya should be let off the hook because they don't host global events. What kind of logic is that? Kenya hasn't even been thrown out of the IAAF events even though athletics is like 99% of their sporting presence. I wouldn't be so vocal about it if the same standards were applied for everyone but it's clear they won't. IAAF will look away and let all these Kenyans compete like nothing happened. Hell, they may even award Nairobi hosting the World Championships one day.

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I think nobody would deny that Kenya has a severe doping problem. But in order to file a lawsuit like that against Russia, you need evidence that the state/government is clearly involved and supports doping -  "looking away" is really hard to prove. In my opinion, this is what happens in Kenya: The state looks away and let the training groups do their doping. Ofc, by looking away, the state enables doping! And I think, this should be punished as well! But: It remains unclear whether the government forces doping or let their athletes compete only compete if they subordinate that doping system. Unless evidence for those issues comes to daylight, it is nearly impossible to ban the entire Kenyan federation. An appeal against a ban only on the basis of hints (even if there are tons of it in the Kenyan case...) would never be upheld by CAS. Never ever. Until then, it is only possible to ban single athletes. Let's hope that ARD is going to find evidence as they did in the Russian case. And as along as we have to wait for such evidence, the sports world is only able to ban those countries for which state-driven doping is proven - even if they are not the only "evil" in the world.

Edited December 9, 2019 by LowerSaxony

[NikolaB 432]

Politic 1 - 0 Sport

Again

[LowerSaxony 205]

  On 12/9/2019 at 3:27 PM, NikolaB said:

Politic 1 - 0 Sport

Again

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Yes. Russian politics won over sports - again. Now, Russia is not allowed to use their flag and their anthem for 4 years. Wow. They will never recover from this. At the same time, they refused to uncover which athletes were doped when they manipulated their data and refused to cooperate with WADA. All these athletes are able to start in Tokyo. So basically, nothing happened. Russia will have a full team in Tokyo (maybe with few exceptions) under the label of neutral athletes. Russian propaganda now fires again the same old victimization campaign (we don't do doping, others do it as well, it's political etc.) and of course they will appeal on CAS in order to exploit the propaganda to the maximum, but to be honest: Nothing really happened which can change the doping problem in Russian sports. Russian sport officials should celebrate right now.

[Monzanator 4,611]

  On 12/9/2019 at 3:08 PM, LowerSaxony said:

 

I think nobody would deny that Kenya has a severe doping problem. But in order to file a lawsuit like that against Russia, you need evidence that the state/government is clearly involved and supports doping -  "looking away" is really hard to prove. In my opinion, this is what happens in Kenya: The state looks away and let the training groups do their doping. Ofc, by looking away, the state enables doping! And I think, this should be punished as well! But: It remains unclear whether the government forces doping or let their athletes compete only compete if they subordinate that doping system. Unless evidence for those issues comes to daylight, it is nearly impossible to ban the entire Kenyan federation. An appeal against a ban only on the basis of hints (even if there are tons of it in the Kenyan case...) would never be upheld by CAS. Never ever. Until then, it is only possible to ban single athletes. Let's hope that ARD is going to find evidence as they did in the Russian case. And as along as we have to wait for such evidence, the sports world is only able to ban those countries for which state-driven doping is proven - even if they are not the only "evil" in the world.

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This goes back to my original question, how much money and effort is ARD or any other media willing to spend to track down the doping in Kenya and find evidence of state-sponsored doping to the extent of the Russian case? In my view - nowhere near as much IMO. I'd say they'll be happy to let Kenya and Ethiopia slide alltogether. These African countries are poor enough and have no global value beyond athletics, yes, their governments can look away and let the big money sponsors take over the sporting programme and maybe inject enough doping along the way. Sure, enabling these doping cases is very similar to Russia, the difference is Russia injects their own money & resources while Kenya & Ethiopia allow foreign investors to fund the whole ordeal. And they're supposedly less guilty or even not guilty of state-sponsored doping. Just because the money isn't Kenyan but from off-shore accounts or whatever?

[Dunadan 1,103]

  On 12/9/2019 at 3:36 PM, LowerSaxony said:

At the same time, they refused to uncover which athletes were doped when they manipulated their data and refused to cooperate with WADA. All these athletes are able to start in Tokyo.

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Exactly the opposite (as I told you before, maybe my English is so bad that nobody can understand): the Russian tried to manipulate their data, but WADA now has the names of all athletes involved, even those whose data was manipulated and deleted. Those athletes will not start in Tokyo, the rest will.

 

 

Edited December 9, 2019 by Dunadan

[Monzanator 4,611]

  On 12/9/2019 at 3:36 PM, LowerSaxony said:

Yes. Russian politics won over sports - again. Now, Russia is not allowed to use their flag and their anthem for 4 years. Wow. They will never recover from this. At the same time, they refused to uncover which athletes were doped when they manipulated their data and refused to cooperate with WADA. All these athletes are able to start in Tokyo. So basically, nothing happened. Russia will have a full team in Tokyo (maybe with few exceptions) under the label of neutral athletes. Russian propaganda now fires again the same old victimization campaign (we don't do doping, others do it as well, it's political etc.) and of course they will appeal on CAS in order to exploit the propaganda to the maximum, but to be honest: Nothing really happened which can change the doping problem in Russian sports. Russian sport officials should celebrate right now.

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Russia has operated that way since centuries. They will always blame others for trying to take them down. No way Russia has a full team in Tokyo, just no frickin' way.

 

What's even worse, most of the world thinks Russia is the only doping problem in the world and everyone else is clean. Like I've said, watch out for these Russian hackers starting to uncover documents about Western athletes next. This will be a part of the "payback" campaign IMO.

[Vojthas 949]

  On 12/9/2019 at 3:45 PM, Monzanator said:

Like I've said, watch out for these Russian hackers starting to uncover documents about Western athletes next. This will be a part of the "payback" campaign IMO.

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I think that will be the BEST what they can do.

[LowerSaxony 205]

  On 12/9/2019 at 3:43 PM, Dunadan said:

 

Exactly the opposite (as I told you before, maybe my English is so bad that nobody can understand): the Russian tried to manipulate their data, but WADA now has the names of all athletes involved, even those whose data was manipulated and deleted. Those athletes will not start in Tokyo, the rest will.

 

 

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Sorry, I must have overread it. Would be great. You have any source for it?

[NikolaB 432]

Yeah of course. Every word said from Russian side is propaganda and every idea come from US and their puppies is the best possible and only valid options. Putin who invaded Ukraine is dictator and Doctor Evil, Obama who bombed Libya and Siriya is Nobel Peace Laureate. That is how modern democratic world live today.

  

How is possible that USADA knows nothing about about their own athletes doped for years, like Marion Jones, L. Armstrong , Tyson Gay. How is possible that one man can swim 10 races in one day and won on 9. Is M. Phellps human or machine? Kenyan athleets run like they eat gasoline.... Qatar buy athleets and medals on daily level... Ian Thorp, Australian wonderman decide to finish his careere after speculations about doping. Than fairytales about Dr Salazar, Chinese super super humans...

 

Yeah, Russia is the only problem. Bad Russia, bad bad