Women's Water Polo Qualification to Tokyo 2020 Summer Olympic Games

[dcro 10,210]

34 minutes ago, Dunadan said:

Greece is comparable to South Africa and would lose all matches by 30 without having a chance to advance to quarters? That's news to me - the quality of the tournament is important to someone, Greece instead of South Africa would be a huge step ahead...now one group will be essentially of 4 teams with everyone advancing again.

 

Greece lost all matches against consequential teams during the 2019 World League, 2019 World Championships *AND* 2020 European Championships. So, yes, it would have been a no-contest if 3/4 teams advanced from Trieste.

[Vektor 3,326]

We are talking about a team that got annihilated by everyone at the last World Championship except for the Korea team who started playing water polo just a couple of months before the WCh. It's absolutely ridiculous that they will be at the Olympics. This is like if Africa would get a default quota in the team fencing events, no matter how they perform at the WCh and World Cup events. 

[Vektor 3,326]

6 minutes ago, dcro said:

 

Greece lost all matches against consequential teams during the 2019 World League, 2019 World Championships *AND* 2020 European Championships. So, yes, it would have been a no-contest if 3/4 teams advanced from Trieste.

 

And in same Olympic cycle they got the silver medal at the 2018 ECh. They can beat any of the other 3 teams and I wouldn't be surprised at all if they qualify. 

[Wumo 3,002]

I don't seem to understand why a relative small global team sport like water polo doesn't have selection criteria? 

 

In water polo they could be like this:

 

Eligibility for Continental Selection and World Qualification Tournament (both men and women):

At least one of the criteria must be fulfilled:

- Qualify for the Super Final in the World League at least once during the Olympic cycle, 2017-2020. (Hosts of the Super Final who don't qualify via the qualification will not have fulfilled the criterion)

- Achieve a top 8 place at one of the two World Championships in the Olympic cycle.

- Achieve a top 4 place at a Continental Championship or Continental Games consisting of at least 8 teams.

- Achieve a top 2 place at a Continental Championship or Continental Games consisting of at least 6 teams.

 

If one of the criteria mentioned above are fulfilled, a nation is eligible for Continental Selection or participation in the World Qualfication Tournament. 

 

The World Qualifcation Tournament consist of at least 12 nations for men and at least 10 nations for women. 

In case the number of participating nations in one or both of the WQT don't reach its target number, one or more of the following scenarios will apply:

- In case 1 spot has to be filled, the combined highest placed non-eligible nation from the two World Championships in the Olympic cycle will recieve an invitation spot. 

- In case 2 or more spots have to be filled then one of the spots will go to the combined highest placed non-eligible nation from the two European Championships in the Olympic cycle. The rest of the spot of will be filled with the highest placed non-eligible nations from the two World Championships in the olympic cycle.

 

To exemplifly with the current qualification:

 

Australia's men's and women's team are eligible for Continental Selection. Let's say they accept it and are qualified for the Olympics

 

Men's WQT:

Achieved one of the criteria:

 Croatia

 Greece

 Montenegro

 Germany

 Russia

 Canada (Pan-Am Games)

 Brazil (Pan-Am Games)

 Argentina (Pan-Am Games)

 Kazakhstan (Asian Games) (Would likely qualify)

 Iran (Asian Games)

 China (Asian Games)

One more Asian nation if the Asian QT consist of at least 8 nations and Japan is not one of the 4 nations in top 4

 

Has not achieved any of the criteria, but receives an invitaton spot if any of the Asian nations above qualifies:

 South Africa (12th place at the 2017 WCH)

 

If one of the nations above rejects its spot,  Romania would receive an invitation 

 

Women's WQT:

Achieved one of the criteria:

 Italy

 Hungary 

 Netherlands

 Greece

 Brazil (Pan-Am Games)

 Cuba (Pan-Am Games)

 China (Asian Games) 

 Kazakhstan (Asian Games)

One of the two nations above are likely to qualify via the Asian QT

It seems the Asian QT will only consist of 6 teams and therefore it's not likely one more Asian nation will be eligible for the WQT

 

Have not achieved any of the criteria, but receive invitaton spots in case one of the Asian nations above qualifies and no new Asian nation becomes eligible:

 New Zealand (Two 12th places at the WCHs)

 South Africa (A 14th and 16th place at the WCHs)

 France (A 11th place at the 2017 WCH and highest placed non-eligible European nation)

 

You may ask, what if more than 12 or 10 nations are eligible for WQT? If that is the case, which is not very likely as long as Oceania and African don't hold Continental Championships, all eligible nations would be allowed to participate in the WQT. 

 

Edited January 31, 2020 by Wumo

[pdr4332 218]

I do agree that it's not South Africa's fault that The Netherlands or Hungary did not qualify earlier.

 

But does anyone know what prompted SA to change it's long-standing policy of not accepting the quota for the African continent? Genuinely curious to know

 

I checked last time, there were several times since the women's tournament was introduced in 2000, that 2 teams of the European "Big Six" (ESP, NED, ITA, RUS, GRE, HUN) did not qualify - so exactly this will be not a novelty.

[JoshMartini007 2,537]

43 minutes ago, dharang said:

I do agree that it's not South Africa's fault that The Netherlands or Hungary did not qualify earlier.

 

But does anyone know what prompted SA to change it's long-standing policy of not accepting the quota for the African continent? Genuinely curious to know

 

I checked last time, there were several times since the women's tournament was introduced in 2000, that 2 teams of the European "Big Six" (ESP, NED, ITA, RUS, GRE, HUN) did not qualify - so exactly this will be not a novelty.

 

In this tournament there will now be 10 teams (up from 8) so most people assumed it would help European teams. Instead it has helped Canada and South Africa.

 

Obviously we should increase the quota to 12 teams so that the "Big Six" along with Australia/Canada/China/United States are essentially guaranteed to qualify.

[JoshMartini007 2,537]

Funny enough, if the Asian qualifier fails to happen there will be three quotas up for grab at the World Qualification Tournament

[pdr4332 218]

50 minutes ago, JoshMartini007 said:

 

In this tournament there will now be 10 teams (up from 8) so most people assumed it would help European teams. Instead it has helped Canada and South Africa.

 

Obviously we should increase the quota to 12 teams so that the "Big Six" along with Australia/Canada/China/United States are essentially guaranteed to qualify.

 

In this sense, I think the Olympics and the European Championship participant numbers should be "reversed": with 12 teams for the Olympics (same that the number for the men's tournament), and 10 teams for the ECh.
IMO there aren't 12 competitive teams in Europe in the women's field (see the results of some ECh group stage matches), but there are enough internationally.

[dcro 10,210]

I just can't understand how people expect to have everyone from the big six at the Olympics (even Greece). Just like that.

 

Whatever happened to actually earning your Olympic qualification...? Like I said, even with 10 teams, women's water polo has it easier than most other team sports.

[JoshMartini007 2,537]

26 minutes ago, dcro said:

I just can't understand how people expect to have everyone from the big six at the Olympics (even Greece). Just like that.

 

Whatever happened to actually earning your Olympic qualification...? Like I said, even with 10 teams, women's water polo has it easier than most other team sports.

 

For the most part, they are earning their Olympic qualification, not their fault other nations can't beat them. Though I agree and do wish FINA would force an African and Oceania championship though.

 

Most people have accepted that team sports should have 12 entrants and for good reason. If an event can't muster 12 entrants, should it be part of the Olympics? I don't think so (this goes for all Olympic events). It's not like this event is the only one with a shallow talent pool. It's also helpful that the 10 teams all have a chance for a medal (Canada and China less so) so there is a bit of an unpredictability factor.