[OlympicsFan 791]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb Monzanator:

 

Speed speciallists are focused on Downhill these days, they try SG but most courses are too technical for them to make an impact so GS converts are doing better and better. Weirather, Gut & Veith are like three top "speed speciallists" who excel in SG but Tina DNF, Gut is off-form and Veith obviously injured. And you can't deny someone like Shiffrin talent. It's like 2 or 4 man bob speciallists which you maybe know better since you're a German. There are some guys who do better in 2 or 4 but some can win gold in both.

Like i always said, super g is too technical, it needs to be longer and faster. There should be no super g that lasts less than 90 seconds and no downhill that lasts less than 120 seconds, otherwise Shiffrin will keep exploiting the system. Stanmark is probably turning around in his grave seeing how easy it is nowadays for a (giant) slalom specialist to win a super g.

[OlympicsFan 791]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Gigs:

What? The most succesful slalom skier of all time wins gold in a super-g and you think that's the point to call the end of the allrounder? Also if anything a smaller talent pool will lead to more allrounders as the depth in the particular disciplines goes down. That said, I don't think freestyle skiing is that big of a problem for alpine skiing as the people doing freestyle skiing probably aren't that often the ones who would be succesful in alpine skiing. 

 

Now this is just nonsense. The time gaps were small but not because the slope was so easy but because coincidentally nobody put together a perfect run. I generally don't get the hate for the slopes in Are. They might not be very long but aside from that imo the speed slopes are pretty interesting. You have technical and gliding sections, lots of jumps and waves and it isn't just one long forest aisle where the whole slope is basically just right turn, followed by left turn, followed by right turn,... The downhills in Are actually follow the terrain unlike most modern downhills.

About the depth being down, you are probably partially right, as Gut and Weirather are out of shape, Veith is injured and Vonn...the less said about her currently the better. So yeah the competition right now isn't great but I think you are looking at the era of Maze through rose colored glasses. I mean the fact that the first skier who came to your mind has won a grand total of 1 world cup super-g in her whole career (tbf plus a WC gold medal in that discipline) tells you quite a lot. So in 2013 people could have complained that aside from Vonn who crashed Maze just had no competition at all as Riesch and Görgl were out of shape that year, and greats like Pärson and Götschl retired a few seasons ago. I bet Shiffrin would have been one of the best super-g skiers back then as well just like she would be in any modern skiing era. 

No, the fact that the race was so close clearly indicates that the track was too easy and that the level of competition is very weak. Vonn in top shape would crush someone like Shiffrin. The problem is that we have noone right now who is a real specialist in speed disciplines, so Shiffrin can dominate super g despite not having the best possible body for this event.

[OlympicsFan 791]

vor 1 Minute schrieb phelps:

very tight race, which is always good for the audience, but...but, even if the best 2 in the game ended up 1st and 2nd, this is not a track good enough to ski a world championship event...no way...

 

 

by the way, today the girls who should have the most regrets is Marsaglia...

she was by far the fastest at the start and among all those who finished the race within half a second from Shiffrin, she's the one who made the most punishing mistake (in the same place where also Shiifrin took a big risk)...

if only she could deliver for once a mistake-free race, probably she'd be partying right now...

 

Rebensburg could say the same ...

She had a big mistake shortly after the start and was almost 0.3 seconds back + she had the worst sight of all the girls in the top 5-10.

[OlympicsFan 791]

Absolutely pointless race, completely unworthy. The fact that the top 10 or so where this close clearly shows thas this course was way too easy. I guess Shiffrin cant believe her luck. A couple of years ago someone like her never would have gotten close to a gold medal in super g/downhill, but sadly the level of competition is at an all time low. I miss the days of Maze, Vonn and so on ...

[OlympicsFan 791]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb heywoodu:

DQ of their results in one competition and then...that's it? In weightlifting or cycling they'd be gone for 2-4 years  

Ridiculous to compare what they did to the methods used in weightlifting and cycling. They should be banned for using a method that is not even illegal? Maybe think again ...

[OlympicsFan 791]

Amazing weekend for Germany. 2 3rd places and a win and all of that without Dreßen, Dopfer and Neureuther contributing anything. Hopefully Luitz can finally show performances like that consistantly. Everyone always knew that he can have random podium finishes, but he never fully used his potential until now because he made too many big mistakes on a regular basis.

[OlympicsFan 791]

What an amazing result for Weidle!

I criticized the german coaches often enough, but what they did with Dreßen and now apparently with Weidle is amazing. Hopefully Dreßen will be back in top shape by the start of next season, he could co-dominate men's downhill for many years.

[OlympicsFan 791]

Ok start for Dreßen. A win wasnt realistic, given that the first 2 or 3 athletes clearly profited from the conditions, but top 5 would have been possible.

[OlympicsFan 791]

Second world cup win for Dreßen and still no victory for Svindal at his home world cup! 

Dreßen is now 3rd in the downhill world cup, only the 2nd time in world cup history that a german is top 3 in this discipline (the other time was in 1967)! 

The last time that a german was in top 3 in downhill/super-g was Markus Wasmeier in 1988.

I think this is the first time ever that a german won 2 downhill races in one season ...

 

[OlympicsFan 791]

What would be the alternative concerning alternates? Lets say one country uses both alternates and the other country uses no alternate, then one country would get 6 medals and the other would get 4, would be a bit inconsistent for me. This leaves only one option left, handing out medals to everyone. In my opinion the rule should be that you can only use alternates if someone gets injured.

[OlympicsFan 791]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb EselTheDonkey:

 Indeed, with the exception of Dreßen this was the best performance of German alpine skiers during these Games.

Overall very disappointing results in alpine skiing, of course the absence of Luitz and Neureuther didnt help. On the mens side i am quite optimistic. Dreßen, Schmid, Luitz and Strasser should form a good team in 4 years, but on the womens side ... it looks really bad.

[OlympicsFan 791]

I cant blame any member of the german team. In theory they should have been much stronger with Neureuther/Luitz, but that didnt work out in the past. Germany might very well be the nation that got closest to eliminating Switzerland.

[OlympicsFan 791]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb heywoodu:

Well if the other main skier is Beat Feuz...  

Feuz could be called Doppelmeter as well, just in another dimension.

[OlympicsFan 791]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb dcro:

 

Did he really think he could win with climbing?!

 

Myhrer, wow, what a nice winner!

He wanted to get that diploma ...

[OlympicsFan 791]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb De_Gambassi:

When you make 4th 5th and 6th, you do get a consolation prize, a plush or something, right ?a plush arm maybe ? Something, anything...

Glad that Faivre wasnt here to see that, considering how mad he was after the giant slalom although france won a medal.

[OlympicsFan 791]

Expected result after the downhill, still incredibly boring event, will hopefully be gone soon. Somehow nice to see Shiffrin only winning 1 gold, after american media talked about 5 golds for her ...

[OlympicsFan 791]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb Gigs:

Two gold medals for sweden in the slalom events. I seriously cannot believe that

I agree, add the gold in biathlon and its pure madness. Hirscher already has enough, but i am sad for Kristoffersen. Would have preferred Noel on the podium instead of a fluke like Zenhauser.

[OlympicsFan 791]

vor 24 Minuten schrieb cypher:

Interesting the frenchman Clément Noël who won junior slalom world championships by almost 3sec, will start the olympic slalom tomorrow.

He's in very good shape. I wish he could enter the top 10

I noticed him at the junior world championships, i couldnt believe his winning margin. He must be an extraordinary talent i think not even Kristoffersen had such a huge margin at junior world championships.

[OlympicsFan 791]

vor 27 Minuten schrieb stamura84:

we're not overperforming.....I don't see the medals of Fischnaller in luge,I don't see the medal of team realy of luge,I don't see the medal of Goggia in superg,I don't see the medal of visintin,I don't see the medal of wierer in biathlon,I don't see any medal from man alpine skier,I don't see the medal of team sprint in cross country (I didn't expected the medal in single sprint).and many others medal could come.this imagine is all the world cup's podium in this season.if we have all this podium this means that we had a lot of chanches to get medal


up to now my vote to olympics is about 5,5

I think medal of Goggia in superg, medal of man alpine skier would have surprise, also medal of team sprint, medal of luge relay. Not medal of Visintin, Wierer was surprise. Not medal of Fisch was 50/50. What does table tell? Italy only 11, but when i wrote they top 10, so better (now Japan gold in speed skating, so now Italy 11).

Edit: Table also says Uzebkistan, Chile, Israel medal, so must be wrong.

Edited February 21, 2018 by OlympicsFan

[OlympicsFan 791]

vor 30 Minuten schrieb phelps:

 

frankly, winning almost all the expected medals is not overperforming to me...

overperforming means going well beyonds your limits, doing something you never did before...

so, Ceccarelli (who had never won a WC race before) winning the Gold medal in Salt Lake City 2002 was clearly "overperforming"...

being among the 4/5 best teams in a competition and then winning a medal is not overperforming, it's just taking advantage of an expected chance, which could have gone either way but luckily went the right way...

being 1 of the 2 clear favourites and winning the gold is definitely not overperforming...it's just 1 of the 2 options for "filling the contract" (and the entire world -at least those who carefully follow the sports in which they are involved through the entire 4-year span, if not for longer- knew that Goggia and Fontana were in this situation)...

but this is just my opinion...so, I guess it's not necesarily the revealed truth...we can even disagree and still live well with that...

 

and about Moioli...if someone who's just won 4 of the 6 regular races of the season (not counting the summer warm-ups in South America nor the farce named "sprint race" in Bansko) included the last 2 not later than 2 weeks before the Games (and who's been 3rd in the other 2 events she didn't win) and has a more than 1000 points lead in the World Cup standings can't be considered the clear and only real favourite of a competition, I don't know who can be called in that way...

p.s. those are facts...not just simple opinions of a biased sports fan...and there's nothing comical about numbers...

 

p.p.s. Gracenote and USA Today never follow the sport...they just read the WC standings and adjust them to their taste, without any technical consideration...

the only results they get are those the favourite (if there's one) or their darlings win...otherwise they are basically useless...

Thanks for that very thoughtful response! I agree about Goggia and i don't think i said something different. Her and Vonn had to be considered the favorites for sure. I don't agree about Fontana though, i would like to know why you considered her one of the 2 clear favorites, although she didn't win a single world cup this season and she is only 3rd in the 500 m world cup and 10th in both the 1000 m and 1500 m world cup. I don't follow shorttrack really religiously, but according to the world cup results i think that Boutin and Choi Min-jeong were the clear favorites, they won 8 out of 12 world cups. I would also be interested to know why you based your opinion concerning Moioli on the world cup results but not your opinion about Fontana? You are probably right about Moioli, although i still think you were exaggerating a bit, it sounded as if she was the biggest favorite at the whole olympic games and could only lose gold if she completely messed up.

[OlympicsFan 791]

vor 49 Minuten schrieb Andry84:

I didn' t want to insult you, i' m sorry if yuo felt that, it' s not easy for me explain exactly what i mean in correct English, we simply have two different ways of considering the results of these races.....

Then what exactly did you want to do with "It' s impossible to talk with you, you are Always wrong, i don't know if you are a Young boyor simply you don' t follow sports ..."?

I agree that we have different ways of viewing results, but why didn't you just say that from the beginning? For both of us "surprise" seems to mean something very different, but that's ok. Before you discuss about something, you should always be clear that all people involve use the same definition, otherwise misunderstandings like that happen. It is nice that you admitted that you were wrong, hopefully we can lead many more good discussions in the future.

[OlympicsFan 791]

vor 11 Minuten schrieb Dunadan:

The main Italian sports newspaper, La Gazzetta dello Sport, predicted 13 medals (4-5-4) in their preview on 9th February. I'm not subscribed to their digital edition, so here's a picture. They have been quite accurate until now in guessing the medallists

https://imgur.com/a/clyqp

(their predicted medallists:

Moioli, Fontana, Brignone, team sprint,

Goggia, Paris, short track Relay, Wierer, Lollobrigida,

Tumolero, biathlon mixed Relay, Fischnaller, Kostner)

Windisch won a medal instead of Wierer and Pellegrino won it individually and not in the team sprint, but you can see that even Tumolero was an expected medallist.

My point is: many expected these results in Italy, even the NOC president set a goal of "more than 10 medals, 3 golds".

 

Ok, thanks i am very surprised then. I am ok with the expected medals overall, but the number of expected golds really surprises me. For me there were 4 gold medal chances for Italy at best, so expecting 3 golds didn't seem very realistic to me.

Gracenote expected 1 gold and 6 medals in total for Italy, USA Today expected 1 gold and 11 medals in total.

[OlympicsFan 791]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb Gigs:

What you are saying is basically "all medals which weren't almost completely certain are surprises". There are events in which you don't have three clear favorites and in some of those you'll make a medal, in some of those you won't. It's not surprising the Italian men's ski team didn't win a medal in the speed events but it also wouldn't have been surprising if they had won one. Same for the women in the gs. Seriously, calling brignone's medal a surprise is just ridiculous. 

Btw, Arndt Peiffer's gold medal is not a surprise to you but Windisch winning any medal is?

Yeah, i would say something that is not expected (let's say more than 50% probability) but still happens is a surprise ...

Then by your defintion, what exactly would have been a surprise in women's giant slalom?

The gold for Peiffer of course is a surprise, but not that he medalled, he was sprint world champion before, what about Windisch, what did he win so far?

[OlympicsFan 791]

vor 49 Minuten schrieb Andry84:

It' s impossible to talk with you, you are Always wrong, i don't know if you are a Young boyor simply you don' t follow sports during the year but only during Olympics and you think that the 1st, 2nd, 3rd in ranking of the worldcups have to win medals. Medal in giant slalom wasn' t sure, but if you look the result of the 13 giant slalom , i think Italy has around 15 podiums, in men biathlon, if Fourcade and Boe make mistakes, there are probably 20 athletes that can achieve a podium, Windisch and Hofer are among  these 20:Windisch disappointments in individual?t' s his worst format, ok i have understood, you don' t follow sports during the yar, you watch only the final results of races.In speed skatinh Italy, on paper, was just behind the podium in 5000, 10000 (probably not Tumolero, but Ghiotto) and team pursuit, it' s not a surprise winning 1 bronze.

Ok, so if you need to insult people, you are clearly out of arguments. Where did i say that top 3 in world cup have to win the medals? I just disagreed that someone who is the 4th most likely to medal (Brignonen, Tumulero) should be called "medal favorite" that is all, but apparently you think differently. I understand your confusion, i wanted to say that the only disappointments so far were "Visintin and Wierer in the individual", sorry about that. Calling Windisch a surprising medallist and then saying that him not winning a medal (in the individual) was a disappointment would have made no sense indeed ...

Edited February 21, 2018 by OlympicsFan

[OlympicsFan 791]

vor 7 Minuten schrieb Dunadan:

No, they predicted 3 golds (Wierer, Moioli, team sprint) and 9 medals for the events so far, which is exactly the Italian medal count so far. 

Ok thanks, so Italy won tons of surprising medals still, but the medal count is the same, i guess we are both partly right. Any other websites! that predicted this?