[OFF TOPIC] Politics Thread

[heywoodu 16,460]

Big piece in a Dutch newspaper about gay people in Indonesia:

https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/het-vrolijke-land-indonesie-zucht-steeds-meer-onder-het-juk-van-de-islam~b8c5548d/

 

In it it's talking about how, in 2003, gay/transgender/cross-dressing people were accepted in every day life, including being on many TV shows. The writer recalls being in Atjeh and watching a local volleyball match where everyone just cared about 'tim waria', 'Team Gay/Transgender'. In recent years under immense religious pressure, it has all gone away completely, and he found of all the people in that specific team, most just disappeared completely, he managed to only contact one of them, who in absolutely no way wanted to get interviewed out of fear of punishment. According to the article, since a few years ago it's even illegal for TV stations to show 'men showing female behaviour'.

 

Also says something about two guys getting nearly a hundred cane beating hits as punishment for having sex, after they were 'caught in the act' (which in this case meant, other people broke into their bedroom while they were doing it and weirdly enough, the victims were punished and the criminals who broke into their room got away without trouble). 

 

The main thing of this piece is basically how 'the once happy Indonesia is being opressed more and more by religion'. Since we have an Indonesian here, I thought I'd ask how much of this is exaggerated and how much is true, because this whole piece made me really, really sad. Literally everything they mention that changed from 2003 to now is seriously fucked up... @Griff88

 

Not that it matters or should matter, but to prevent certain things: this newspaper is actually known as a pretty left and liberal one, not a Geert Wilders kind of paper.

Edited August 3, 2019 by heywoodu

[Monzanator 5,111]

Makes you wonder why a Dutch newspaper wants to change culture in Indonesia though?

[Griff88 2,021]

4 minutes ago, heywoodu said:

Big piece in a Dutch newspaper about gay people in Indonesia:

https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/het-vrolijke-land-indonesie-zucht-steeds-meer-onder-het-juk-van-de-islam~b8c5548d/

 

In it it's talking about how, in 2003, gay/transgender/cross-dressing people were accepted in every day life, including being on many TV shows. The writer recalls being in Atjeh and watching a local volleyball match where everyone just cared about 'tim waria', 'Team Gay/Transgender'. In recent years under immense religious pressure, it has all gone away completely, and he found of all the people in that specific team, most just disappeared completely, he managed to only contact one of them, who in absolutely no way wanted to get interviewed out of fear of punishment. According to the article, since a few years ago it's even illegal for TV stations to show 'men showing female behaviour'.

 

Also says something about two guys getting nearly a hundred cane beating hits as punishment for having sex, after they were 'caught in the act' (which in this case meant, other people broke into their bedroom while they were doing it and weirdly enough, the victims were punished and the criminals who broke into their room got away without trouble). 

 

The main thing of this piece is basically how 'the once happy Indonesia is being opressed more and more by religion'. Since we have an Indonesian here, I thought I'd ask how much of this is exaggerated and how much is true, because this whole piece made me really, really sad. Literally everything they mention that changed from 2003 to now is seriously fucked up... @Griff88

 

Not that it matters or should matter, but to prevent certain things: this newspaper is actually known as a pretty left and liberal one, not a Geert Wilders kind of paper.

Well it is not exaggerated, it IS what happened.

 

One of popular stuff years ago in TV were drags or effeminate men. Now everything is banned, content like that are now only in Youtube.

Some cities did "gay raids"... There is a viral case where a woman chastised a man for hugging another man who is driving a motorcycle. They were later revealed as... siblings

Also another viral case where a woman confronted a girl wearing "rainbow LGBT pin"... it is actually UN Sustainable Development Goals pin. People are really paranoid of LGBT related stuff.

 

Many believed that LGBT is a disease cause by djinn possession, so need to be healed by ruqyah (Islamic exorcism).

 

Yes the the face of tolerant Indonesia is tarnished by those from Hizbut Tahrir (now banned in the country) and Saudi sponsored clerics, they spread hatred and even will readily teach their followers label moderate Muslims as infidels. The trend of growing intolerance and strange religious based trends (e.g: vaccination and birth control pills are haram, women who became subject of poligamy will go to heaven, flat earthers, cleaning of own's house after visited by non Muslim, etc.) is amazing for the last 10 years.

[heywoodu 16,460]

19 minutes ago, Griff88 said:

Well it is not exaggerated, it IS what happened.

 

One of popular stuff years ago in TV were drags or effeminate men. Now everything is banned, content like that are now only in Youtube.

Some cities did "gay raids"... There is a viral case where a woman chastised a man for hugging another man who is driving a motorcycle. They were later revealed as... siblings

Also another viral case where a woman confronted a girl wearing "rainbow LGBT pin"... it is actually UN Sustainable Development Goals pin. People are really paranoid of LGBT related stuff.

 

Many believed that LGBT is a disease cause by djinn possession, so need to be healed by ruqyah (Islamic exorcism).

 

Yes the the face of tolerant Indonesia is tarnished by those from Hizbut Tahrir (now banned in the country) and Saudi sponsored clerics, they spread hatred and even will readily teach their followers label moderate Muslims as infidels. The trend of growing intolerance and strange religious based trends (e.g: vaccination and birth control pills are haram, women who became subject of poligamy will go to heaven, flat earthers, cleaning of own's house after visited by non Muslim, etc.) is amazing for the last 10 years.

Thanks, that is terribly sad to read

 

Personally I find this kind of extreme oppression worse than that of North Korea or something. "We believe in what book A says and so we have the right to beat and imprison anyone who does something that doesn't fit within what we believe." 

[Federer91 3,381]

11 minutes ago, heywoodu said:

Thanks, that is terribly sad to read

 

Personally I find this kind of extreme oppression worse than that of North Korea or something. "We believe in what book A says and so we have the right to beat and imprison anyone who does something that doesn't fit within what we believe." 

 

Isn't that what also happens in North Korea, but it's just with the book of Kim. 

[Griff88 2,021]

9 minutes ago, heywoodu said:

Thanks, that is terribly sad to read

 

Personally I find this kind of extreme oppression worse than that of North Korea or something. "We believe in what book A says and so we have the right to beat and imprison anyone who does something that doesn't fit within what we believe." 

Interestingly even Muslims themselves are even affected...

 

My friends often complained that their parents or relatives have "gone mad". During Ramadan some areas created a prohibition to open food stalls during fasting time, causing some women having period or those who are not fasting for other reasons suffered.. they need to walk further to find someone selling food. Interestingly, KFC, McDonalds and other western fast food chain were untouched by this regulation... the small food stalls by the street were the ones affected, ironically most of the owner are Muslims...

[heywoodu 16,460]

1 hour ago, Monzanator said:

Makes you wonder why a Dutch newspaper wants to change culture in Indonesia though?

Not change, but report on. Understandably, since it's a rather significant/extreme descent.

[Monzanator 5,111]

20 minutes ago, heywoodu said:

Not change, but report on. Understandably, since it's a rather significant/extreme descent.

 

Indonesia is the most populous Muslim country in the world. I'm unsure whether reporting on LGBT community half way across the globe is really that significant

[heywoodu 16,460]

30 minutes ago, Monzanator said:

 

Indonesia is the most populous Muslim country in the world. I'm unsure whether reporting on LGBT community half way across the globe is really that significant

Not when it's a stand-alone thing. The whole point however is to show how incredibly much it descended towards this in only 10-15 years or so, which - especially considering how extreme it is - is rather notable. Reporting on notable issues is one of the main things newspapers tend to do.

Edited August 3, 2019 by heywoodu

[Monzanator 5,111]

14 minutes ago, heywoodu said:

Not when it's a stand-alone thing. The whole point however is to show how incredibly much it descended towards this in only 10-15 years or so, which - especially considering how extreme it is - is rather notable. Reporting on notable issues is one of the main things newspapers tend to do.

 

Neah, newspapers only care about selling numbers. What makes those papers sell is unimportant. Case in point: News of the World hacking a dead girl's phone just to get a story. Journalism is one of the last places where you can find noble people doing noble things.