Olympic sports program review

[mpjmcevoy 350]

2 minutes ago, mpjmcevoy said:

Cycling :

 

Right...Princiople 3 applies. a velodrome is an expensive venue to build and while it's a great thing to have, it's not all that brilliant in design terms for multi-sport use. So if you're gonna build one/update one, you absolutely positively have to get bang for the buck. Secondly, given the nature of the events, cyclists can double and treble up nearly at will, so there's no need for a massive number of new quotas.

 

Track : The entire worlds' program. All 22 races. Get that bastard velo working day after day. Indeed, I'd go as far as to say the velo will now be the tentpole for the second week of the three week Games. Lengthening the program also allows recovery for the cyclists to do multiple events, thus reducing a need for extra quotas. At a bare minimum, the return of the IP and the Kilo, but really, no, all 22.

 

Road : This one is tough, as road fans are among the very few fans of any event who simply don't accept that the Olympics is going to mean some miniaturization of fields - they want their 140-180 man peloton and teams of 7 and 8, god damn it.

Well, it ain't gonna happen. And I quite like that the Olympic race is a bit odd, and a bit old school. So I'd leave the races alone, with the caveat that more of the road racers should be allowed to do the TT - it costs no extra quotas.

 

I'm afraid the tragic history of the Olympic TTT puts me off even thinking about adding it back. Irrational, but there you go. I would love an Olympic stage race, to use the country, and which would help fill up the third week (stage winners would not get medals but would still be a hefty feather in the cap), but I don't honestly think that's likely.

 

BMX : I'm pretty happy with what we have, not convinced flatland BMX freestyle would add much - I would increase the freestyle fields very slightly though, and maybe introduce a heat, semi, final structure (16->12->8)

 

MTB : Not convinced short track really adds to the menu - but if it can be fitted in the outdoor/nature venue with no extra quotas, its another days ticket sales. I wonder if an eliminator event might be more interesting.

 

 

Equestrian:

 

This sport is incredibly divisive, but it has a long history as part of the Games, and it is popular in a lot of countries. As a rule, I'm not a fan of people who don't like something being able to dictate to people who do if that something is not universally understood to be unacceptable - and however much some activists wish otherwise, the idea that using animals is inherently cruel is not universally accepted. If it were seeking admittance today, I'd say no, but it's not, it's already there.

 

That said, I'd be happy to trim it back substantially in numbers, notwithstanding principle 3

 

Proposal: reduce quotas, otherwise no change

 

 

Fencing:

 

The presentation of the sport has improved beyond all measure in recent years, as they've finally realised what they have that works on a showbiz level, and what doesn't. I do find myself wondering if a mixed event in each sword would be more efficient than six team events that suck up so many of the quota places. But leave it be for the time being, I suppose, perhaps fiddle with qualification system.

 

Proposal no change

 

 

Football (soccer)

 

Women's soccer is absolutely safe and fine and embedded in Olympic culture.

 

Men's soccer is a shitshow. It sells bucketloads of tickets, so IOC are loathe to lose it. IT gets players injured, so clubs are loathe to tolerate it. and FIFA wants to protect the primacy of its own event, so won't really help it. I repeat, it's a shitshow. But one that many countries, though from all, care quite a lot about.

 

FWIW, I think FIFA should be considering downsizing the men's tournament to 12 teams in 2 groups of six with only medal finals (still maximum 6 games per team as today, but 32 total matches rather than 31), and using the released quotas for a small futsal tourney.

 

Proposal : Shrink Men's field to 12, add Futsal

 

 

 

Gymnastics : the 'support' tentpole for the middle week, along with cycling

 

FIG are missing a trick, IMHO not including tumbling, trampoline synchro and double mini trampoline. They are fun explosive events. Aerobic and Acrobatic, not so much

 

Proposal : add tumbling, double mini trampoline, and trampoline synchro. Field need not be huge - 12 in each tumbling event and double mini event, 8 pairs in each synchro event

 

Golf:

 

I think this was the year Golf realised the Olympics mattered, that it had a place in the narrative of the sport - Tennis arguably had that after Steffi, but more obviously after Andy Murray - to the point you saw what it meant to the GOAT, Djokovic. Well, Golf is on the same journey I think, and as a biased Irishman I wonder if it might be Rory McIlroy who provides the Andy style narrative. anyway, the two individual events are fine as is.

 

It's the proposed team event gets me interested. I think it should happen, it should be matchplay, it should be teams of 4 - 2 men, 2 women, playing over nine hole matches - a  kind of speed matchplay - in matches consisting of three 'rubbers' - M Singles, W Singles, Mixed foursome.

4 groups of 4 teams, round robins over 9 holes as I said - converting the old scoring system (2&1, 3 up etc) into 2 pts for win, 1 for tie, 0 for lost hole - with target obviously 10 (i.e 5 holes won or equivalent)...if the rubber is 9-9 after nine holes, tie break is simple 1 shot, nearest the pin on the 10th (or 1st, if playing 10-18). 1-9 and 10-18 will both be used and every group will play on both sets of 9 across the group stage.

 

That creates a 27 hole group stage over a day and a half. Top 2 teams in each group then go to QF, another 9 hole shoot out. bottom 2 teams go into 'repechage' round, so after two days everyone has played 36 holes

 

Day three is semi finals day : matches remain 3 rubber, but switch to 18 holes (winning score is now 19). Winners in top bracket go to final, losers meet the winners of repechage bracket/"bronze semis"

 

day 4 is gold/silver final and bronzes finals, again 3 rubber, 18 holes

 

total 72 holes maximum per player over 4 days

 

Day   morning     afternoon

 

 1         GS1   (24 rubbers)     /      GS2 (24 rubbers)

 2        GS3   (24 rubbers)    /      Gold QF & Repechage/Bronze QF (24 rubbers)

 3       <-----        Gold Semis and Bronze Semis -----> (12 rubbers)

 4       <------      Gold finals and Bronze finals ------> (9 rubbers)

 

Qualification would simply be the highest 16 aggregate totals from the individual events. NOCs restricted to one team.

 

Proposal : add 4 day, 72 hole team matchplay event in a speed matchplay format :  no extra quotas

 

Hockey

 

No changes proposed

 

Handball

 

No changes proposed

 

Judo

 

I think the quotas should be trimmed a bit, it seems wrong to deny taekwondo or boxing its weight classes while having so many judoku and every class.

 

The trimmed quotas would be sent in the first instance to taekwondo to allow it to field all its weights.

 

Proposal : reduce quotas. Possibly remove team event if affected.

 

Karate :

 

In principle, I'm all for it. But the scoring system needs to be looked at urgently because it is utterly opaque to non insiders - it is to some extent easy to intuit what scores in judo or taekwondo, or boxing or wrestling. It is not at all clear in karate. If that includes a need to bring in sensor electronics, then do so.

 

And, lets be clear. No Kata. I understand the importance of forms in the history of the sport, but it is utterly ludicrous to an outsider to have an Olympic medal for feirce grimacing and striking  at a non existent enemy. Its pantomimic.

 

Proposal bring back Kumite if scoring system/explanations improved. no return for Kata.

[intoronto 5,481]

1 hour ago, sounak said:

I think in terms of popularity, field hockey is very popular. It is competitive as well (not like basketball). Why would you want it dropped?

I don't want it to be removed based on your reasons, but in the IOC's eyes field hockey is in the lowest category in terms of revenue, popularity etc. Ideally the IOC increases its quota of 10,500, but it won't, so a team sport would have to go to make the quotas available for individual events. The sole reason is to have quotas redistributed. When wrestling was dropped a few years ago, it was in the bottom 3 with field hockey and MP. I wonder if Paris 2024 changes the rankings of sports.

 

Water polo is the least popular (I think?) of all the team sports but gets a pass because its part of World Aquatics. 

Edited Wednesday at 11:42 PM by intoronto

[intoronto 5,481]

Forgot to add: Quota increases in Athletics to allow for each country to send at least one male and one female.

Quota savings to be used for increase universality quotas. It seems each cycle the number keeps dropping.

Edited Wednesday at 11:47 PM by intoronto

[Erigert 83]

7 hours ago, Maxim Fastovsky said:

Remove sports that are dominated by one country, namely Diving and Table Tennis, if China wins all the medals then what is the point of competition (Badminton used to be part of it, but looks much more equal now in the past 3 cycles), Also remove Boxing which they are doing anyway, and Weightlifting, it's not really a competition, at this point it's who dopes the most, and we know China wins the doping contest hands down since Russia is banned. 

 

I would add a team golf competition, something like the ryder cup

Following this logic, an existing sport should be worried to be removed from the Olympics in case a single country wins all the events in that sport.

 

And I dont know why you only mention diving and TT, when in this last olympics there have been other sports totally dominated from a single country:

-Archery (South Korea)

-Basketball (USA)

-Field Hockey (Netherlands)

Should we remove these sports aswell or considering China is not dominating them everything is OK?

[Mkbw50 434]

Mostly it's fine. I think Artistic swimming will probably move to a men's event. I wish baseball and softball were four tournaments instead of two. Women's baseball certainly deserves a spot. Boxing needs to change points system. Cricket should just be a part of the Olympic programme. With football I wish they just made men's football serious but right now it can be cut to twelve. Fencing, shooting and archery's high event total is dubious, especially archery. I don't really see what skill it tests being specifically in a team (unlike say tennis where doubles is very different to singles). All the added sports are worth it in my view

[AmericanHero40 191]

6 minutes ago, Erigert said:

Following this logic, an existing sport should be worried to be removed from the Olympics in case a single country wins all the events in that sport.

 

And I dont know why you only mention diving and TT, when in this last olympics there have been other sports totally dominated from a single country:

-Archery (South Korea)

-Basketball (USA)

-Field Hockey (Netherlands)

Should we remove these sports aswell or considering China is not dominating them everything is OK?

yes, if one country would end up dominating those sports and they will be as unpopular as diving and table tennis then sure, throw them away as well. There is a case to be made for archery, in Field hockey you had different before the current cycle netherlands only won one of 4 medals, so doesn't count. And sure you can throw away basketball, NBA is the big prize anyway,  too bad that it's the most expensive ticket around, and people care much more about watch Lebron James, Steph, Jokic, Doncic and Giannis then some commie diving (and probably getting overscored, but who knows)

[intoronto 5,481]

3 minutes ago, Mkbw50 said:

Mostly it's fine. I think Artistic swimming will probably move to a men's event. I wish baseball and softball were four tournaments instead of two. Women's baseball certainly deserves a spot. Boxing needs to change points system. Cricket should just be a part of the Olympic programme. With football I wish they just made men's football serious but right now it can be cut to twelve. Fencing, shooting and archery's high event total is dubious, especially archery. I don't really see what skill it tests being specifically in a team (unlike say tennis where doubles is very different to singles). All the added sports are worth it in my view

WOmen's baseball deserves a spot? lol There is not enough depth to justify it having a permanent spot. This is why the WBSC went went baseball for men and softball for women

[Mkbw50 434]

Just now, intoronto said:

WOmen's baseball deserves a spot? lol There is not enough depth to justify it having a permanent spot. This is why the WBSC went went baseball for men and softball for women

Yes but I'm biased because I like baseball

[AmericanHero40 191]

1 minute ago, Mkbw50 said:

Yes but I'm biased because I like baseball

Baseball shouldn't have a space unless they can get a commitment from MLB that they will allow the best to participate, it will be interesting to see what they will do in LA28, however i wouldn't bet on it because they have the WBC. Outside of it not too many people will turn out to watch some minor leaguers play, Ohtani vs USA in dodger stadium..... now that would be something amazing, hopefully it will happen

[JoshMartini007 2,507]

Yeah, you're better off going with men's softball than trying to bring women's baseball to the Olympics