Artistic Gymnastics 2020 Discussion Thread

[thepharoah 2,405]

It's not anyhow different here in Egypt also despite the fact that we're really far away from being competitive and even some coaches go far for sexual harassment against girls and the main problem that families of these athletes know exactly what happens but they always support coaches and long as their children win 

[Dnl 691]

21 hours ago, thiago_simoes said:

 

In my opinion, it's even worse in rhythmic gymnastics, but you're right: this sport is toxic when it comes to how training is conducted all around the world. There are a number of reasons for that:

1) Most coaches learned to coach the Soviet way.
2) In some countries, physical violence and emotional abuse are seen as efficient ways to discipline athletes, and these countries usually thrive in gymnastics.
3) There's huge pressure for traditional programs to keep their results.
4) Similarly, smaller programs feel that if they don't come up with a miracle, funding will be cut, so they put three times more pressure on gymnasts for good results.
5) Age-requirements in women's artistic gymnastics are ridiculous. While in men's artistic gymnastics the boys are allowed to compete in senior events when they are 18 or older, in women's programs girls turn senior when they are 16. It's terrible because 13-14 year-old-girls are supposed to perform very hard skills and their bodies are not ready for that, so the coaches push them above their theoretical limits, and either the girls snap, the coaches snap, or both.

In rhythmic gymnastics all of these points are 10 times worse because the number of countries that are relevant is very small, funding is nearly non-existent, basically only post-Soviet nations are relevant (and Bulgaria, a country which some coaches are equally toxic), and gymnasts over 20 are almost universally seen as past their prime.

I know it’s easy to say this, but why won’t the athletes go and make a change of some degree regarding the hard treatment of Those coaches, this is one of the things that are bigger than the sport imo

[Olympian1010 7,971]

21 minutes ago, Dnl said:

I know it’s easy to say this, but why won’t the athletes go and make a change of some degree regarding the hard treatment of Those coaches, this is one of the things that are bigger than the sport imo

Because when you speak out against the coaches you get punished, or the abuse just gets covered up. Gymnastics is a sport that requires perfection and success. When athletes attempt to submit complaints about coaches, national federations see that as a threat to success. Plus, many of those who staff the national federations went through similar times as athletes and coaches, so they are numb to the issue.

[heywoodu 15,135]

The Dutch federation today announced the provisional full suspension of the women's national team, the entire program is being halted pending an investigation and participation at the European Championships is far from certain (if they happen of course).

 

Meanwhile, every single athlete in the women's team came out yesterday with a statement saying that they're not familiar with the things in the accusations and that at least right now those things aren't happening.

 

Lieke and Sanne Wevers won't have anyone coaching them now, since their dad is provisionally suspended for all activities. Some of the others can still do some training with their club coaches.

[Grassmarket 3,403]

9 hours ago, heywoodu said:

The Dutch federation today announced the provisional full suspension of the women's national team, the entire program is being halted pending an investigation and participation at the European Championships is far from certain (if they happen of course).

 

Meanwhile, every single athlete in the women's team came out yesterday with a statement saying that they're not familiar with the things in the accusations and that at least right now those things aren't happening.

 

Lieke and Sanne Wevers won't have anyone coaching them now, since their dad is provisionally suspended for all activities. Some of the others can still do some training with their club coaches.

Wish I could say I was surprised.  We have seen the same thing in several sports in Britain with successful programmes being destroyed because some athletes are unwilling to subject themselves to the kind of discipline  your average army recruit would accept as normal.

[dcro 10,210]

It sounds sort of like that thing where people willingly choose to conform, but then start blaming everyone else when things go to hell.

[Olympian1010 7,971]

24 minutes ago, Grassmarket said:

Wish I could say I was surprised.  We have seen the same thing in several sports in Britain with successful programmes being destroyed because some athletes are unwilling to subject themselves to the kind of discipline  your average army recruit would accept as normal.

Except that it’s not acceptable there either. It’s hidden, allowed in practice, and wide spread for many of the same reasons though. The military demands perfection, and seeks good results; the same as gymnastics.

[Grassmarket 3,403]

12 minutes ago, dcro said:

It sounds sort of like that thing where people willingly choose to conform, but then start blaming everyone else when things go to hell.

This is exactly what happened to British track cycling: one of the world’s mist successful programmes in any Olympic sport has been practically destroyed by allegations from a mediocre athlete who failed to meet minimal expectations (ie get an Olympic qualifying place).  
 

Bad headlines in the press, great coaches got fired, bureaucrats micro-managed, medal-winning athletes quit, results declined, sponsorship money dried up......

[heywoodu 15,135]

47 minutes ago, Grassmarket said:

Wish I could say I was surprised.  We have seen the same thing in several sports in Britain with successful programmes being destroyed because some athletes are unwilling to subject themselves to the kind of discipline  your average army recruit would accept as normal.

 

That's a rather big misrepresentation of the situation. Drilling army recruits is not really comparable with abusing teenage (mostly) girls, by not one rogue coach, but coaches all over the world.

[heywoodu 15,135]

I'm not sure suspending an entire team (where the athletes themselves say right now the situation is ok) is the solution, but downplaying the whole thing is just not the way to go at all. There absolutely is a huge problem, saying there isn't is like denying weightlifting has ever had a doping problem.