[OFF TOPIC] Eurovision Song Contest 2023

[Vektor 3,326]

1 hour ago, heywoodu said:

The whole point is that it's a mix of televoting and jury, so I really don't get what exactly the problem is with Sweden winning in that regards (other than my own personal opinion of thinking the act simply is nothing special). If you win one but not the other, that's fine, the entire point is you are the best overall instead of either just the most popular or the most 'professional'...

 

If it's mostly televoting, we'll get complaints about acts scoring high just because of sympathy (hello Ukraine) or diaspora or something (hello Turkey) and 'we should have judges award points too'  

The point of the jury was never to have the "best overall winner". Their introduction was always about reducing the impact of diaspora vote, that was the goal. And that goal in some ways failed because we always see how the jury likes their neighbors, sometimes even more than the public.

 

EBU never wanted a less popular act to win the contest. Because this isn't the Grammys or the Oscars, this should be about the public's opinion first and foremost, not some few individuals. The most popular act should still win, just with reduced impact from the diaspora. This is why I think in theory a 66% public 33% jury voting would achieve what they want, limit the diaspora impact while still the most popular song wins. 

[heywoodu 16,465]

Just now, Vektor said:

The point of the jury was never to have the "best overall winner". Their introduction was always about reducing the impact of diaspora vote, that was the goal. And that goal in some ways failed because we always see how the jury likes their neighbors, sometimes even more than the public.

 

EBU never wanted a less popular act to win the contest. Because this isn't the Grammys or the Oscars, this should be about the public's opinion first and foremost, not some few individuals. The most popular act should still win, just with reduced impact from the diaspora. This is why I think in theory a 66% public 33% jury voting would achieve what they want, limit the diaspora impact while still the most popular song wins. 

Well, that's going to be a matter of having to agree to disagree then I think  

[Vektor 3,326]

5 hours ago, Belle said:

Finland was the only country to not give Sweden any televoting points. Yeah nice and fair country Finland is. 

 

Btw grow up people Sweden won fair according the rules both 2015 and 2023. Only kids are crying about the rules when they don’t win 

The rules clearly should be questioned as it has been for over a decade now, Sweden is only the main target of this because you seem to benefit the most from it. The juries simply favor Sweden more than the actual European public does. And that will continue to hurt your reputation in this show. People already see you as the "villain" of Eurovision because you benefit from a system where the votes of a few selected individuals are just as important as the votes of an entire continent. 

[justony 511]

This year only televoting was in use for semifinals, so no surprise Finland won against Sweden.

[Benolympique 2,441]

Thank you to the few countries that voted for France..

[Vektor 3,326]

2 hours ago, heywoodu said:

Well, that's going to be a matter of having to agree to disagree then I think  

Well, I came up with a system that keeps the voting 50% jury and 50% televote, BUT makes it impossible for the jury to heavily favor a song, so their impact on who wins is reduced. I posted it Reddit, I will just copy it to here:

 

When 37 countries participate, the countries overall give out 2146 jury points. It's distributed based on the jury Top10 of each country. So when we saw that Sweden got twice as many jury points as the 2nd placed country, the chances of the televote having a similar impact on the winner was very low, therefore the winner was likely decided before the end.

 

So here's my solution: count the jury points as usual and then redistribute them based on the overall jury ranking.

 

Here's what I mean:

Nation	Original Jury Points	Redistribution Weight	Redistributed Jury Points
Sweden	340	35	198
Israel	177	33	186
Italy	176	31	175
Finland	150	29	164
Estonia	146	27	152
Australia	130	25	141
Belgium	127	23	130
Austria	104	21	119
Spain	95	19	107
Czechia	94	17	96
Lithuania	81	15	85
Armenia	69	14	79
Cyprus	68	13	73
Switzerland	61	12	68
Ukraine	54	11	62
France	54	10	56
Norway	52	9	51
Portugal	43	8	45
Slovenia	33	7	40
Moldova	20	6	34
Albania	17	5	28
United Kingdom	15	4	23
Serbia	14	3	17
Poland	12	2	11
Croatia	11	1	6
Germany	3	0	0
---	---	---	---
Sum	2146	---	2146

And then you get the overall results based on the original televote points + the redistributed jury points.

	Nation	Overall	Jury	Televote
1	Finland	540	164	376
2	Sweden	441	198	243
3	Israel	371	186	185
4	Italy	349	175	174
5	Norway	267	51	216
6	Ukraine	251	62	189
7	Belgium	185	130	55
8	Estonia	174	152	22
9	Australia	162	141	21
10	Austria	135	119	16
11	Armenia	132	79	53
12	Cyprus	131	73	58
13	Lithuania	131	85	46
14	Czechia	131	96	35
15	Croatia	118	6	112
16	Spain	112	107	5
17	Moldova	110	34	76
18	France	106	56	50
19	Switzerland	99	68	31
20	Poland	92	11	81
21	Albania	87	28	59
21	Slovenia	85	40	45
21	Portugal	61	45	16
24	Serbia	33	17	16
25	United Kingdom	32	23	9
26	Germany	15	0	15

So the jury overall ranks the countries while the viewers simply vote for the favorites. Makes sense to me. The jury provides a balance to the public, and can still kill a song by placing it very low in their ranking, but they can't truly crown a winning song with this system.

Edited May 14, 2023 by Vektor

[heywoodu 16,465]

That seems unfair...why not do the same with the televotes to make it fair with both set of votes being treated the same way?

[Belle 1,046]

2 hours ago, Vektor said:

The rules clearly should be questioned as it has been for over a decade now, Sweden is only the main target of this because you seem to benefit the most from it. The juries simply favor Sweden more than the actual European public does. And that will continue to hurt your reputation in this show. People already see you as the "villain" of Eurovision because you benefit from a system where the votes of a few selected individuals are just as important as the votes of an entire continent. 

She was second in the televoting without even a single televoting point from cheating Finland 

 

you know the televoting can be tactical and unfair too?

 

last year everyone complained about Ukraine winning the televoting. The point is there are complaining about the winner almost ever year. Grow up 

Edited May 14, 2023 by Belle

[heywoodu 16,465]

52 minutes ago, Belle said:

She was second in the televoting without even a single televoting point from cheating Finland 

 

you know the televoting can be tactical and unfair too?

 

last year everyone complained about Ukraine winning the televoting. The point is there are complaining about the winner almost ever year. Grow up 

'Cheating Finland because they didn't give us points', come on  

[Belle 1,046]

17 minutes ago, heywoodu said:

'Cheating Finland because they didn't give us points', come on  

Of all countries they were the only country to not give Sweden any televoting points. Coincidence? I really don’t think so.