Orangehair43 177 Posted August 12, 2021 #151 Share Posted August 12, 2021 4 minutes ago, OlympicsFan said: It is shocking how you can get almost everything wrong in such a short comment ... 1) Klosterhalfen turned 24 this year and won a world championship bronze less than two years ago. She also just finished 8th at the olympics, which made her the best european runner in this event. What was the best finish of a polish woman in a track event? 2) So you are saying Germany isn't relevant in women's javelin (number 2 in the world this year), women's discus throw (olympic silver medalist) and men's decathlon (defending world champion who turns 23 this year and 99 % would have won at least bronze at the olympics without the injury). I believe that Germany had more top 8 finishes at the olympics than the Netherlands/Italy and as many as Poland (thanks to their gold in the joke mixed relay). Those countries had generational fluke performances, but their actual level in athletics is much lower than the medals make it seem. 3) You are correct that Germany got much worse in doping sports over the last decades. Not too long ago Germany was still great in speed skating, rowing, biathlon, (men's) cross-country and women's canoeing sprint. I wish you were trolling, but sadly i don't think you are. As a single Olympic final level rower from outside of Russia tested positive in the last five years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monzanator 3,595 Posted August 12, 2021 #152 Share Posted August 12, 2021 2 minutes ago, Orangehair43 said: True but Surely every team in cycling is suspect. Ineos are not popular in the UK anymore at all - the main elite sporting press hate them (and the tabloid readers don’t like cyclists full stop) Obviously cycling is the most doped sport outside of weightlifting but IOC seems to be fine with it for whatever reason. Plus Sky/Ineos is the best funded team in sport so they have more money for "jiffy bags" than others. Let's see if Geoghegan Hart becomes the next Wiggins/Froome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlympicsFan 783 Posted August 12, 2021 #153 Share Posted August 12, 2021 15 minutes ago, Orangehair43 said: The UK doesn’t win that many track medals. And What’s your view on Konstanze Klosterhalfen ? Of course they do, only the other doping super powers (Jamaica, Kenya, Ethiopia, USA) win more track medals. Germany for example hasn't won a single track medal at the olympics since 2000! Klosterhalfen is as much part of the german system as Farah was/is. A lot of german journalists raised questions after she decided to join Salazar. Until recently my view was that anyone who wins a track medal at world level is dirty (regardless of nationality), but now i think that it might be possible to win a medal in the hurdles/steeplechase without doping. Klosterhalfen won a medal in the 5000 m, so there you have your answer ... Attachment is the great fabricator of illusions; reality can be obtained only by someone who is detached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orangehair43 177 Posted August 12, 2021 #154 Share Posted August 12, 2021 Just now, Monzanator said: Obviously cycling is the most doped sport outside of weightlifting but IOC seems to be fine with it for whatever reason. Plus Sky/Ineos is the best funded team in sport so they have more money for "jiffy bags" than others. Let's see if Geoghegan Hart becomes the next Wiggins/Froome. Surely UAE team are even richer being they state funded by an oil rich state. And Arab nations like to get sporting success by spend spend spend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orangehair43 177 Posted August 12, 2021 #155 Share Posted August 12, 2021 2 minutes ago, OlympicsFan said: Of course they do, only the other doping super powers (Jamaica, Kenya, Ethiopia, USA) win more track medals. Germany for example hasn't won a single track medal at the olympics since 2000! Klosterhalfen is as much part of the german system as Farah was/is. A lot of german journalists raised questions after she decided to join Salazar. Until recently my view was that anyone who wins a track medal at world level is dirty (regardless of nationality), but now i think that it might be possible to win a medal in the hurdles/steeplechase without doping. Klosterhalfen won a medal in the 5000 m, so there you have your answer ... Why the stepplechase ? That seems to be full of runners testing positive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlympicsFan 783 Posted August 12, 2021 #156 Share Posted August 12, 2021 18 minutes ago, Orangehair43 said: Funding must be at least partly to blame. France has suffered a similar fate. German athletics gets more money than british athletics. German athletics has the same problem as many other fields in Germany. It is lead by people who are too naive and actually think that you can compete without doping. I guess in a nation that is lead by a person who thinks that she can convince Putin/Erdogan/Orban to change their course by asking them nicely this isn't too surprising ... I think the last two olympic champions in a track event were Dieter Baumann (got caught) and Nils Schumann (strong suspicions) ... and i don't believe that this was a coincidence. Germany chose to not use the GDR know-how anymore and instead those coaches went abroad ... and for example took over british rowing. France has a different "problem", unlike GB and Germany they are actually relevant in team sports. Imagine how good France could be in sprinting, if they could use all their volleyball/handball/basketball talent there ... Attachment is the great fabricator of illusions; reality can be obtained only by someone who is detached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlympicsFan 783 Posted August 12, 2021 #157 Share Posted August 12, 2021 21 minutes ago, Monzanator said: I don't see where that funding goes though? They're still good in equestrian and that's it, lol. They have fallen off in swimming too, I mean Steffen and Biedermann were kinda one-offs 12-13 years ago already and it's gotten worse in 2021. It's not like Germany isn't the biggest economy in EU. So where does the money go? I don't see them suddenly rising to power in other sports? Please ... just stop, reading your comments physically hurts me. The 2021 olympics were the best for german swimming since 2008 and it is the first time that more than one person won a medal since 2004 and the first time that a german men won a medal since 2000. Seeing how you constantly write bullshit with absolute conviction, when you clearly have no clue what you are talking about, actually makes me angry. One last point: Unlike many other countries Germany doesn't try to push the athletes to dope by offering crazy rewards (Germany pays less than half for a gold medal than Slovakia for example). When i see the rewards for bulgarian athletes and look at the state of their anti-doping-system, it seems like a no-brainer to dope if you are a remotely talented bulgarian athlete. Attachment is the great fabricator of illusions; reality can be obtained only by someone who is detached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orangehair43 177 Posted August 12, 2021 #158 Share Posted August 12, 2021 2 minutes ago, OlympicsFan said: German athletics gets more money than british athletics. German athletics has the same problem as many other fields in Germany. It is lead by people who are too naive and actually think that you can compete without doping. I guess in a nation that is lead by a person who thinks that she can convince Putin/Erdogan/Orban to change their course by asking them nicely this isn't too surprising ... I think the last two olympic champions in a track event were Dieter Baumann (got caught) and Nils Schumann (strong suspicions) ... and i don't believe that this was a coincidence. Germany chose to not use the GDR know-how anymore and instead those coaches went abroad ... and for example took over british rowing. France has a different "problem", unlike GB and Germany they are actually relevant in team sports. Imagine how good France could be in sprinting, if they could use all their volleyball/handball/basketball talent there ... I wonder if the German public will eventually demand to see improvements in Olympic performance. They certainly seemed a lot of hype for the golds won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mkbw50 381 Posted August 12, 2021 #159 Share Posted August 12, 2021 28 minutes ago, OlympicsFan said: Yes, espcially swimming ... also we ignore the miracle rise of british cycling because ... ? I feel sorry for you if you actually think that GB achieved this ridiculous improvement without systematic doping. In swimming we won four gold medals... one of them was Adam Peaty and another a relay with Peaty in it, is he doping? And then Thomas Dean and James Guy got the 1-2 and won the relay? Are they doping? Is it that crazy to have five or six good athletes pop up when you inject an extra £30m, that wasn't showing up before? As now we come across the world To share these Games of old Let all the flags of every land In brotherhood unfold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlympicsFan 783 Posted August 12, 2021 #160 Share Posted August 12, 2021 19 minutes ago, Monzanator said: Ad 2: The Olympic silver in women's discus was a surprise. Plus you used to have 3 discus/javelin throwers vying for Top 8 places. So now that you have ONE athlete capable of such results is a sign you're going down. No way one Hussong means more quality than Obergfoell/Nerius/Stahl trio I don't even want to argue about the big picture (although you might be surprised if you look at the number of medals Germany won in athletics at the 2004/2008 olympics), but that you aren't even consistent: Mihambo is enough for you to say that Germany is relevant in women's long jump, but Pudenz/Kaul/Hussong aren't -> Inconsistent. I think it would help if you would be clear about the point you are trying to make the next time before you enter a discussion. Attachment is the great fabricator of illusions; reality can be obtained only by someone who is detached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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