[OFF TOPIC] Politics Thread

[Monzanator 4,502]

1 hour ago, Federer91 said:

 

Don't they have to do what the government says? 

US is a federal country. If National Guard comes in I guess police will have to take a back seat no matter what.

 

Federal law stands above what the 'government' says. Ain't that right, @Olympian1010 ?

[Olympian1010 7,976]

8 minutes ago, Monzanator said:

US is a federal country. If National Guard comes in I guess police will have to take a back seat no matter what.

 

Federal law stands above what the 'government' says. Ain't that right, @Olympian1010 ?

It’s complicated. I’m not quite sure I fully understand how it works to be honest. It’s not well defined in the Constitution. 
 

Police fall under the individual States. However, police departments are special federal districts, which means they special rules like school districts, health districts, etc. John Oliver did a good piece explaining special districts of you want to learn more. 
 

National Guard is a federal entity, but each state has their own. I have no clue how that system works if I’m being honest. I do know that these aren’t “combat soldiers” (though they can be ordered into combat (my dad almost was almost deployed into Desert Storm)). They act like normal civilians except they attend training/service sessions either once a week or once a month (can’t remember which). They also have to be ready for a call to action. Their my duty is protecting the homefront (I.e. domestic guard). 
 

Police do not have to take a back seat. In most cases the police and National Guard will work together on whatever issue. I’m not sure who has “final say” though. 
 

Powers granted to the federal government must be respected in all parts of the U.S. However, any power not directly given to the federal government is fair game for the State’s under the 10th Amendment in the U.S. Constitution. The focus of our government is “power sharing and power balancing.” There’s no one entity that really ever has a “final say” under law. Congress can pass a law, but the President can veto it, but then they could override then veto with enough votes, but then the Supreme Court could strike the law down, but then the law could be rewritten to comply with the Supreme Court’s ruling etc.

[Monzanator 4,502]

9 minutes ago, Olympian1010 said:

It’s complicated. I’m not quite sure I fully understand how it works to be honest. It’s not well defined in the Constitution. 
 

Police fall under the individual States. However, police departments are special federal districts, which means they special rules like school districts, health districts, etc. John Oliver did a good piece explaining special districts of you want to learn more. 
 

National Guard is a federal entity, but each state has their own. I have no clue how that system works if I’m being honest. I do know that these aren’t “combat soldiers” (though they can be ordered into combat (my dad almost was almost deployed into Desert Storm)). They act like normal civilians except they attend training/service sessions either once a week or once a month (can’t remember which). They also have to be ready for a call to action. Their my duty is protecting the homefront (I.e. domestic guard). 
 

Police do not have to take a back seat. In most cases the police and National Guard will work together on whatever issue. I’m not sure who has “final say” though. 
 

Powers granted to the federal government must be respected in all parts of the U.S. However, any power not directly given to the federal government is fair game for the State’s under the 10th Amendment in the U.S. Constitution. The focus of our government is “power sharing and power balancing.” There’s no one entity that really ever has a “final say” under law. Congress can pass a law, but the President can veto it, but then they could override then veto with enough votes, but then the Supreme Court could strike the law down, but then the law could be rewritten to comply with the Supreme Court’s ruling etc.

But if a state of emergency is declared that opens another box of options? This is where democracy trips over it's own feet. State of emergency makes the decision-making process and the order of command easier - at least in theory.

[Federer91 2,796]

20 minutes ago, Monzanator said:

US is a federal country. If National Guard comes in I guess police will have to take a back seat no matter what.

 

Federal law stands above what the 'government' says. Ain't that right, @Olympian1010 ?

 

I was talking about The Netherlands 

 

Like Holland has/d these strict measures against Covid for months (you know banning sports till September), with distancing at the forefront. And now this happens with people ass to ass and the police are like "Nope, we ain't doing anything, can't be bothered". Isn't this the time for the Prime Minister to come out and say that there shouldn't be thousands of people gathered in close proximity after the months of measures and that the police should maintain the distance. Like i see no logic here. 

 

Like the no logic, that those dutch people actually believe that their protest, will actually have any effect on what happens in the US (or any other country). The only effect it will have will be on their own health..

[OlympicsFan 858]

On 31/05/2020 at 10:41, Vic Liu said:

I suspect less than 2 weeks maybe in 1 week. I don't see the riots can change anything except venting emotions. What government could do? Arrest the police, commit investigation and claim some oral reforms. Then this thing will pass. The deeper bias will not just vanish by protest and paper rules.

Of course you can’t force people to change their views, but you can still do some things to make incidents like this less likely:

- Stricter punishments

- Quota for policeman (don’t know if something like this already exists), more Asian/black/Latino/female policeman (they seem to be less prone to racism)

- When a policeman has shown certain „tendencies“ in the past, then maybe „letting it slide“ isn’t the best option. In this case it was pretty clear that this guy „wasn’t right“

 

I am sure there are tons of other options for reforms, but of course the most important thing would be to reduce/eliminate institutional racism in general. Non-white people have less political opportunities (not only because they are poorer), so „their“ candidates have less chance of getting elected, which leads to reforms becoming less likely ... (as you know there is a lot of money involved in American politics, so the poorer you are, the less influence you will have on politicians).

It also has to be said that:

a) Even under Obama not much changed, which might indicate how „stubborn“ some people in power are when it comes to changing things.

b) Some control mechanism have already been installed, for example body-cams, so it is also wrong to say that nothing can be done.

[OlympicsFan 858]

On 31/05/2020 at 06:01, Vic Liu said:

 

China no. He started the trade war and a potential cold war. We pray every single day for the coming 5 months that Biden would win. At least he's rational.

Are you sure? Just recently I read a statement from a Chinese politician from before the last election saying „We want Trump to win. He is a businessman, we know how to deal with him“. Trump had managed to piss a lot of foreign leaders (Iran, Europe, Canada, Australia?) off, which in turn allowed China to gain influence in certain areas of the world. 

[Olympian1010 7,976]

18 minutes ago, Monzanator said:

But if a state of emergency is declared that opens another box of options? This is where democracy trips over it's own feet. State of emergency makes the decision-making process and the order of command easier - at least in theory.

Who declared the State of Emergency? Township, City, County, Special District, State Government, or Federal Government. In this case, which ever the highest entity that calls it is “in charge” I believe...Again, this is something most people don’t study, and I’m not sure it’s all that well defined in some cases.

[Olympian1010 7,976]

19 minutes ago, Federer91 said:

 

I was talking about The Netherlands 

 

Like Holland has/d these strict measures against Covid for months (you know banning sports till September), with distancing at the forefront. And now this happens with people ass to ass and the police are like "Nope, we ain't doing anything, can't be bothered". Isn't this the time for the Prime Minister to come out and say that there shouldn't be thousands of people gathered in close proximity after the months of measures and that the police should maintain the distance. Like i see no logic here. 

 

Like the no logic, that those dutch people actually believe that their protest, will actually have any effect on what happens in the US (or any other country). The only effect it will have will be on their own health..

People who are in favor of the protests and want reform to get a sense of heightened moral from this, and it does show the government that this could affect ties with countries we’re close in the future should we need to call on our allies at some point. Some there’s no immediate tangible effect, but there is a spiritual/mental affect which could help in the long run. 

[Olympian1010 7,976]

23 minutes ago, OlympicsFan said:

Of course you can’t force people to change their views, but you can still do some things to make incidents like this less likely:

- Stricter punishments

- Quota for policeman (don’t know if something like this already exists), more Asian/black/Latino/female policeman (they seem to be less prone to racism)

- When a policeman has shown certain „tendencies“ in the past, then maybe „letting it slide“ isn’t the best option. In this case it was pretty clear that this guy „wasn’t right“

 

I am sure there are tons of other options for reforms, but of course the most important thing would be to reduce/eliminate institutional racism in general. Non-white people have less political opportunities (not only because they are poorer), so „their“ candidates have less chance of getting elected, which leads to reforms becoming less likely ... (as you know there is a lot of money involved in American politics, so the poorer you are, the less influence you will have on politicians).

It also has to be said that:

a) Even under Obama not much changed, which might indicate how „stubborn“ some people in power are when it comes to changing things.

b) Some control mechanism have already been installed, for example body-cams, so it is also wrong to say that nothing can be done.

Things that have been suggested, and some things I would suggest:

- Conflict de-escalation training

- Sensitivity training/local culture training 

- more community outreach programs (programs that have police and communities come together for constructive purposes)

- Demilitarization of police 

- Get rid of enforcement quotas (many departments force their officers to make a certain number of arrests, busts, stops a month)

- mental wellness evaluations (help officers cope with what they experience, and help them solve their own problems in constructive manners)

- neighborhood watch/community council programs

 

Of course none of this would ever happen the United States is where science, research, and intelligence goes to die.

[Olympian1010 7,976]

Trump just threatened Civil War on national television. We are one civilian being shot away from Civil War and violent insurgency. He is threatening to turn the military on the American people.