Wrestling 2024 Discussion Thread

[Federer91 3,376]

On 11/12/2024 at 4:55 PM, MHSN said:

UWW's new rules for change of nationality

 

this doesn't look great for likes of Bahrain, Albania, Bulgaria, Slovakia, Serbia and few more. 

 

still it won't make a huge huge impact for the next Olympic cycle because each NOC still can use 2 mercenaries per style in each tournament but after 2028 it will be reduced to just 1. 

 

some of those countries already have 3 or 4 (or more) Russian mercenaries per style. from now on they have to pick 2 of them for each tournament.

I assumed the new rule applies to previous mercenaries too
.

https://cdn.uww.org/2024-11/change_of_nationality_regulation_eng_oct2024_final.pdf

also you can't wrestle for another country without a passport. (UWW allowed that for some years) current non-national wrestlers can continue like that until the end of 2026 though.

 

it could be better but in general I'm OK with new rules. good job by UWW. 

I'm all in favor of this and it was about time. Wrestling has become table tennis 2.0 and in some cases even worse. In European Championships from 20 wrestlers in a weight you were seeing 7-8 foreigners. Yes, it's mostly Russians, but there are also Ukrainians, Georgians, Cubans being naturalized. 

 

I've said it numerous times, that i don't approve the tactic our federation started of naturalizing people left and right. Which actually wasn't paying off that much, until the Olympics. If it leads to worse results, than it's just a wakeup call for the destruction of our wrestling system (which has been evident for 15 years).

[ChandlerMne 1,210]

I support this decision, 100%.

Small note, even the strongest nations like Uzbekistan, USA, are using many Russian born athletes. Others (ones from MHSN's post) are really pushing their limits.

If only this decision could be applied to all other sports. We wouldn't have Asian championships in Europe in table tennis.

[heywoodu 16,459]

6 hours ago, ChandlerMne said:

I support this decision, 100%.

Small note, even the strongest nations like Uzbekistan, USA, are using many Russian born athletes. Others (ones from MHSN's post) are really pushing their limits.

If only this decision could be applied to all other sports. We wouldn't have Asian championships in Europe in table tennis.

Exactly, if table tennis had the same rules, a full 2 or so out of 20 medals would be different indeed, massive  (and about 3-4 or so the year before)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_European_Table_Tennis_Championships

 

I kind of feel like in wrestling there is a significantly larger amount of Russians (Dagestani's mostly, I assume) in the top of the European levels than Asian players in table tennis  (especially men's table tennis)

[phelps 8,685]

I really love this new rule, even if it might hurt  in the next future

[JoshMartini007 2,858]

7 hours ago, heywoodu said:

Exactly, if table tennis had the same rules, a full 2 or so out of 20 medals would be different indeed, massive  (and about 3-4 or so the year before)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_European_Table_Tennis_Championships

Are you talking about Maria Xiao? She was born in Spain, grew up in Portugal before returning to Spain. That shouldn't count and definitely not the same as people moving to a country with no ties to compete

[heywoodu 16,459]

13 minutes ago, JoshMartini007 said:

Are you talking about Maria Xiao? She was born in Spain, grew up in Portugal before returning to Spain. That shouldn't count and definitely not the same as people moving to a country with no ties to compete

Sorry. In that case, it would be a whopping 0 out of 20 medals that would be different, even better  

 

My point was that it's actually not that 'bad' in European table tennis, at least looking at top results (nothing compared to the Open Dagestani Championships in wrestling).

[MHSN 3,813]

12 hours ago, ChandlerMne said:

I support this decision, 100%.

Small note, even the strongest nations like Uzbekistan, USA, are using many Russian born athletes. Others (ones from MHSN's post) are really pushing their limits.

If only this decision could be applied to all other sports. We wouldn't have Asian championships in Europe in table tennis.

you are right but those countries like Azerbaijan, Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan also spend huge money on their own program. 

 

I mentioned some countries because they simply forget developing young wrestlers and focused only on buying foreigners. which is really sad because some of these countries used to be pretty good. I always use Bulgaria as an example which was a superpower not long time ago. 

 

btw I wonder how this will affect Bahrain, they simply has no local wrestler. they bought a full team of 6-7 Russian wrestlers in freestyle. now they can use only 2 of them for each tournament and they have to send 2 homegrown wrestlers with them (that number will increase to 4 from 2027). I assume they will pick up two random guys from the street 

[JoshMartini007 2,858]

2 hours ago, heywoodu said:

Sorry. In that case, it would be a whopping 0 out of 20 medals that would be different, even better  

 

My point was that it's actually not that 'bad' in European table tennis, at least looking at top results (nothing compared to the Open Dagestani Championships in wrestling).

You are correct. I was in this case, defending the ethnic-Chinese that were born in the nation they compete for.

 

Looking at the 2024 Olympics, it seems less than 10% were Chinese-born competing for a different nation (this potentially includes athletes which immigrated to their nation as children). That may be a mild concern, but there are many sports like wrestling and some events in athletics where it is a lot worse.

 

I think the difference is that there isn't a lot of money in table tennis outside of China. While there's not a lot in wrestling either, it is more spread out globally. A 4th rate table tennis player probably still makes more money competing in China than competing in a different place while a 4th rate Russian wrestler could make more money competing somewhere else.

 

World Table Tennis is trying to globalize the financial part of the sport so it will be interesting to see if things change. They may have to incorporate these rules too.

[MHSN 3,813]

6 minutes ago, JoshMartini007 said:

I think the difference is that there isn't a lot of money in table tennis outside of China. While there's not a lot in wrestling either, it is more spread out globally. A 4th rate table tennis player probably still makes more money competing in China than competing in a different place while a 4th rate Russian wrestler could make more money competing somewhere else.

in a sport like wrestling, if you are #1 in your country and win World or Olympic medals you can make money otherwise you get nothing. that's not the case in table tennis.

 

being #2 in your country behind the world #1 (who happens to be from the same country) is a terrible situation. you know you are good enough to win medals but someone always blocks your way,

 

most of these Russian wrestlers try to win the Russian nationals and win medal for Russia (which pays much better) but when they realize they are getting old and they can't beat a certain local wrestler they move to somewhere else. that's still bad but I don't really blame them, nobody wants to end his career without a major medal.

 

it's not a bad idea if UWW somehow follows what IJF does. but I don't think that happens anytime soon.

[MHSN 3,813]

Russia and Iran will meet in both Greco (22 November) and freestyle (23 November) in Moscow this weekend. 

 

not a serious competition but, there is prize money and both teams are bringing lots of World and Olympic medalists. 

 

our Greco team is more complete, only 2-3 guys are missing but in freestyle this is somehow half of our A team.

 

for Russia it's hard to say what's exactly their A team right now because of the suspension. but this team is close to be the A team without the best of the best Sadulaev.