Monzanator

12 hours ago, hckosice said:

 

Well, The communism we had here was really very bad. No doubts. It was something, well, hard to explain to someone who hadn't experienced it. No freedom, my grandfather was in prison just because he refused to join the party. Subsequently, the whole family suffered, my mother had to leave (was expulsed from) the university and was obliged to an inferior job despite the fact she never did anything bad she was just denyied to earn diploma. it was a bad time, people were oppressed. arrested and torturred on a daily basis if you was not agreeing with the regime. it is necessary to realize that freedom is not a matter of course.

On the other hand, certainly not everything is basically wrong, everyone had a job (had mandatory to work) Health and education was free etc.. But overall it was bad and sad. Prohibition to travel, prohibition of freedom of speech, prohibition to form any other party or group. prohibition of religion. extreme censorship, empty shops, bananas were just for "Christmas or the end of year holidays like there were called at these times" and even everyone could only buy two or three pieces . But especially no freedom. All peoples were always followed by the party, and if someone in the family managed somehow to emigrate to the west, it was a complete disaster for the rest of their family. Thank God, these times are long gone.

 

But ofc this was the communism we had here, totalitarian communism under USSR control. and THAT was the wrong thing.

The same thing happened here, mandatory work was obvious. My father never joined the party too therefore he couldn't advance into the senior control level at the mine (but he didn't want to). We had oranges once a year and bananas were unheard of either. Obviously I'm very glad these times are gone and Olympian1010 and his love for sociallism has absolutely no idea how it was in Czechoslovakia and Poland, he just talks nonsense we have no idea and he somehow knows better what communism looks like. Quite pathetic.

2 minutes ago, Olympian1010 said:

Given you love for ignorance, I’m surprised you’re not spreading creationism or flat-Earth theories.

Whatever. Guess the 45 years of Soviet rule in Poland was all a dream? Go sell the "sociallism is great" stuff to someone else. The entire Eastern Europe isn't buying what you are selling

1 minute ago, Olympian1010 said:

And I admire your lack of imagination, research, and knowledge on the subject matter.

Poland doesn't need any imagination or research anymore. 45 years of Soviet rule gaves us - and Hungary, ex-Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, Romania etc. - hard evidence on the matter. And we all decided to get rid of this wonderful system called communism

4 minutes ago, hckosice said:

 

Speaking about Communist propaganda, The best one was for sure that in the USA there no spa  click on subtitles

 

Given Olympian's love for sociallism he'd be spreading the same propaganda if he was born few decades earlier IMO

23 minutes ago, Olympian1010 said:

You don’t know what socialism brings either...Communism isn’t Socialism. If people don’t realize how helpful and awesome government programs are, than I can’t help.

 

Yeah, I think that’s why Poland’s decided to try racism, white nationalism, and xenophobia again. Sanders isn’t a communist, but apparently you can’t read English since multiple users have said this before. 
 

No, that is something Democrats are united on. Stop, no. Cut down on the number of (by many), yes.

 

Or we’ll actually realize the best system of Socialism, and we will have actually “Made America Great Again”. I’ll admit that Sanders would be first choice to initiate that, but I’ll take what I can get.

 

I’ll take help where I can get it, that’s politics baby. They’re wrong about him being an easy opponent though. The left has some propaganda at the ready, so I wouldn’t be concerned 

Sure, Poland has no idea what communism or sociallism is but a 20-year old American knows it better. I almost admire your naivety

Denmark beating the WR to 3:44.XX is basically yawn material?

2 hours ago, Olympian1010 said:

This. This is a great example of why Bernie is the candidate the party needs and not Biden or Buttigieg.

Also, here’s a link to the full article:

It actually does a pretty good job of explaining where Sanders so popular amongst a young generation of Americans. It also offers and explanation of why my generation is more left than most American generations.

I can give you this, younger generation has no idea what sociallism really brings to the table. Sanders will raise taxes on speed dial and this won't be enough, eventually not only the millionaires will have to fund his ideas like he promises and this is where shit hits the fan.

Wasn't it Georg Hegel who said that one thing that people learn from history is that they never learn from history? And he inspired Marxism and Fascism come 19th/20th century? Sure, Sanders wants to "make communism great again" to paraphrase Trump's motto but is only heading into one direction. USA has never been ruled by a communist masquerading as sociallist but guess you are due this great honor

Will Sanders cut NRA's unofficial reign? Doubtful. Will he stop the mass shootings from taking place? Probably not.

If Sanders somehow becomes POTUS he will serve as the prime example why sociallism won't work in USA and will scare people off for decades (that's if he doesn't conk out in office first).

Of course there is the subplot where Russian hackers want him to win the Dems nomination since he will be the easiest opponent for Trump's re-election. If that's the case then Sanders is a sitting duck. No way he can stop the online propaganda, fake news & hacking efforts.

3 minutes ago, Olympian1010 said:

But they’ve made it work for them. The government is heavy handed, but the population is regarded as one of the happiest in the world. Most of their problems are stem from being patriarchal society (like Singapore), more than from Marxism. Nepal is even less heavy handed, and freedom of information seems quite available there.

We're talking about Himalayan glaciers so tourism is the only thing that matters there. These people are dealt a specific hand and you can't change the environement or just about anything else. Freedom of information carries very little value, I mean what is there to hide among these 7,000 or 8,000 meter peaks?

38 minutes ago, Olympian1010 said:

It’s worth mentioning that both Nepal and Bhutan have chosen Marxist policies and presidents, but both have also been able to maintain democracy in the process, so it can be done. Now, their are still issues with Nepal and Bhutan in terms of rights, but I think those could ironed out.

Somehow I don't think Marx had Bhutan in mind when talking about the proletarian revolution

2 minutes ago, Agger said:

 

I mentioned him, yeah as one of those interpreting the dictatorship of the proletariat in his own way. Never mentioned that his way could be the right one

Communism has no right way, period Mao's industrialization was bound to fail in the 50s/60s just like it failed in the USSR in the 30s. World War II extended communism rule due to Stalin being the biggest winner of them all (outside USA who cashed in on the Lend & Lease act and suffered no internal damage within its borders). USSR had 35 tank factories build in the 30s. Who needs tanks during peacetime? This model of economy was a total failure without WWII.

14 minutes ago, Agger said:

 

I'm just gonna stop this here, when you keep on feeling like mentioning the situation in Denmark. I'm an academic and can look beyond our borders even though you apparently seem to think otherwise!

I look at what was written AND state VERY clearly that it is NOT working, not in the past and not in the future.

And you were the one starting the Mao discussion. I said that he like all other "Communist" leaders used communism, never really trying to finish the dictatorship (even though some leaders has said that it's finished, which the policy did very clearly show that it never did).

I have NO belief in the communist idea and I happily fight the few who do believe in it, but I do still see that what we've seen is not the idea in its pure form.

Yeah, communism belongs to academic or scholar discussions but not in real life anymore. It has been tested and it has failed no matter what the theory says. Thankfully we're over this crap in Poland and I don't care how sexy Bernie Sanders makes communism look in USA right now

PS. You were the one who mentioned the Mao name first. I didn't mention a single name in my communist posts up until you did it. Political ideas in pure form are long dead. This is even more evident in the social media & fake news rule that we have today.

I suppose this means Shiffrin won't return to action this season. With the coronavirus running wild in Italy I won't be surpirised if some home cooking allows Brignone to sit on the overall lead all the way through. Losing the Ofterschwang slalom hurts Vlhova's chances a lot.

11 minutes ago, Agger said:

 

It is much less about ideology than the old days, no doubt, but not at all? I'm disagreing there. It's really only true if you see ideology as a purely stativ thing. 

But that really doesn't matter in this discussion. I'm just pointing on a slight flaw in the pro/con-communism discussion that you and Olympian1010 were having. Overall I agree with you, but I do see ways to defend Olympian1010's ideas.

Mao didn't run on a "pure communist agenda". He did make it sound like it, but just as other self-appointed communist leaders he used the idea without really considering the people that it should in fact help, just like we would see in any new communist state.

Secondary, you can always find something positive. The good old "Hitler was terrible but he did afterall..."-comment (fill in the blank) is seen from time to time. Nothing is black and white and though the bad things did without doubt overshadow the slight good parts, if you search long enough, some statistic could be positive. Cherry-picking is afterall something plenty of groups like doing nowadays. The society doesn't work that way, but it can still be an interesting excercise.

 

There will always be firm believers in different ideologies. 

If someone wants to cherry pick the communism I'm OUT! 40 years of this bullshit in Eastern Europe should teach everyone what a waste it was. Guess Denmark needs a strictly communism regime to find out in reality how those Marx theories work

Mao and Khruschov split in late 50s and Mao was scared of losing power on the heels of Cult of Stalin going downhill following Khruschov's speech in 1956. The LAST thing I will do is to debate whether the Great Leap and Chinese way was the "real communism" or better than USSR way. They were both equally worthless on the long run. 

10 minutes ago, Agger said:

 

Looking at Marx's ideas, there is the interim period called the "dictatorship of the proletariat". It's really vague and could therefore easily be interpreted like Lenin, Stalin or Mao did (just to mention the most familiar). Krushchev did declare that dictatorship ended, but in reality it didn't.

The pure communist idea hasn't really been excercised and it isn't likely to be so ever (other than in very small communities).

I would in no way be defending the idea, but it's not really wrong to say that.

 

I am in no way in opposition to your thoughts on what communism has done to too many countries, I'm just looking at the actual ideology behind the idea.

Politics is no longer about ideology. Communism was the last system that tried to sell "ideology" as the driving force of the people. You can put Marx's ideas into museum, they are absolutely worthless these days when it comes to reality of the world. Even China runs a hard business line and has risen as economical power. Dare I say they are doing a lot better than during Mao's regime and the pure communist agenda. Communism succeeded when the imperial powers collapsed at the end of World War I. That was the high-water mark. Power to the people. Well, people have power these days instead of family-run monarchies so the ideals are not required anymore.

Reality always verifies the theory and communism theory has failed massively in real life

6 minutes ago, Agger said:

 

To be fair, a lot of (modern) communists would say that the actual communist state has never existed. 

Most of us would never (for good reasons) give it a try, as what was supposed to be a transition has always ended up as the actual situation. In a purely theoretical situation where it went fullblown communism at once, maybe there would be some goods in there. But once again, I doubt that would ever happen, as some strong person would see a way to take control.

Right, who is going to believe in such baloney? The communist rebranding happened because it couldn't beat capitalism so it used its methods to rise in power as clearly evident by China's economy.

Then again, we had this rebranding in the early 70s in Poland. The old communists who were even NKVD agents before WWII were finally run out of business and replaced by the new generation which called themselves "sociallists" But it was the same communist BS and come 1981 and the martial law everyone saw right through it again and the system was on it's way out which finally happened in 1989.

Luiza Zlotkowska announced her retirement at the age of 33, exactly 10 years to the day of the Vancouver OG team pursuit bronze medal (which was a major shock).

She basically didn't compete internationally after the Pyeongchang OG anymore and works as TV expert.

@Olympian1010  Well, good luck in trying to make communism work in USA   I see no point in talking about this rotten system after half of Europe got rid of it. If Bernie Sanders thinks he's reinvented the wheel that is his problem

9 minutes ago, Olympian1010 said:

Going with them Trump expletives I see 

 

I felt I was very clear that communism was bad, but what can a man do?

 

People in communist countries have healthcare, higher literacy races, and live more active lives. They also tend to have a better sense of collectivist (in the communication sense) thought (rather it’s bad or not is most certainly up for debate). They also don’t have to worry about random shooting attacks.

 

I do think communism is worse than capitalism, but for me, that’s like being asked to chose who’s better “Mussolini or Hitler” (Mussolini obviously, but’s still far from a great option)

 

I do value freedom of speech, and as a social-anarchist I believe it’s everyone’s right within fair limits (ie. no hate speech) (there’s difference between criticism and hate). I have many values as journalist, as an educated citizen, and as someone who truly cares about the wellbeing of others. I will attack places like China, North Korea, USSR, etc. all day. However, it would be unfair to not point out where political systems have been successful. 
 

I wrote under censorship for 14 years as a catholic school student. I learned from a very young age how to play the game. It’s one of the main reasons I’m so outspoken today. However, I’ll admit that any good writer can get a message across under any regime. You just have to learn to play the rules to your advantage. I saw through their lies, but I was smart enough to use them for my vision of how the world should be.

 

I really do appreciate your virtue signaling though. You complain of my personal attacks on you, but I see it’s a double standard so...

There are no double standards. Communism is downright evil. I don't know any of the Soviet satellites in Eastern Europe who want this system to make a grand return anytime soon. We might be negative towards EU sometimes but communism as the replacement? Never! You have no idea how bad this system is. You might cherish it on paper but in reality it's just horrible. Sadly, you have no idea what are you talking about. I suppose you're not gonna live in North Korea for an extended period of time anytime soon to see what the pros of communism really are? Whatever they are, the negatives outweight them by a ton and then some. It's not even the freedom of speech but food rationing or stores where you can only buy vinegar & mustard because there is nothing else there?

If you like vinegar you'd love the choice here:

2 hours ago, Olympian1010 said:

I know, I hate when leaders go abroad and learn that are xenophobic attitudes towards other countries our unfounded. Their are pros to communism. I’m not advertising it, or glorifying it, but I am admitting that their are things communist nations do well. Neither Capitalism, nor Communism are perfect, and anyone who thinks as much is quite dumb.

Holy shithole! This can only come from someone who lived in a country that was never ruled by communism.

Since you are a journalist, forget the freedom of speech. I thought the prime value for any journalist would mean something to you but guess not. Unless you'd be fine riding as the propaganda puppet Communism had a lot of propaganda involved until people just couldn't stand all the lies.

2 hours ago, Olympian1010 said:

Gotta love baseball justice.

 

I bet Astros pitchers will be head-hunting in revenge as well?

I don't follow track cycling all that much but is GB getting some new talent influx? The Kennys, Jack Carlin and Elinor Barker are the only names I know and they are seasoned campaigners? HSBC has pulled out of the sponsorship deal just three years into an 8-year deal so one has to wonder whether this team has reached its high-water mark already? When the Kennys retire it will be a stellar ash down there.

11 minutes ago, Werloc said:

 

No Zuk either, so I only caught on on Gwizdon.

Zuk is skipping super sprint, she will start her champs in Thursday's relay

women are also in strong presence, it's basically our A team minus Monika Hojnisz.

Apparently due to the last-minute venue change there was no time to prepare the 4 km loop so there will be no individual races in these champs We have the super sprints instead.

Jan Kowalczyk passed away at the age of 79 today.

Still the only Polish Olympic gold medal winner in equestrian.