Athletics WA World Championships 2025

[copravolley 498]

3 minutes ago, heywoodu said:

I don't think Eastern European sports (or sports in general) has ever been a thing in any of my school books  

In Poland in the 1990s was a cult of Szewinska, but then again, Koch and other DDR athletes was considered a dopper  Funny thing. I wonder how they talk about it in Germany now? 

Edited September 18 by copravolley

[Grassmarket 4,028]

15 minutes ago, copravolley said:

Szewinska, Koch and Kratochwilova (Pol, DDR, Czechoslovakia) :P They were all on doping - that's clear.

There's no doubt about  doping, but the other countries are more doubtful.

 

Communist countries also had better facilities, better coaching, better youth development etc etc.

 

And also they were Communist countries, so everyone wanted to get out, and being a world class athlete was the easiest way to do it.

[Grassmarket 4,028]

9 minutes ago, copravolley said:

In Poland in the 1990s was a cult of Szewinska, but then again, Koch and other DDR athletes was considered a dopper  Funny thing. I wonder how they talk about it in Germany now? 

Doping in  was 100% proved in the Courts.

[copravolley 498]

2 minutes ago, Grassmarket said:

Doping in  was 100% proved in the Courts.

Okay, but look at the appearance of Szewinska, Koch and Kratochwilova... There are photos, videos on YouTube, etc. I think there's no need to prove anything here.

Edited September 18 by copravolley

[heywoodu 16,004]

12 minutes ago, Grassmarket said:

There's no doubt about  doping, but the other countries are more doubtful.

 

Communist countries also had better facilities, better coaching, better youth development etc etc.

 

And also they were Communist countries, so everyone wanted to get out, and being a world class athlete was the easiest way to do it.

Yes, the Soviets did a better job at destroying the documents than the Stasi did. Didn't manage to kill everyone in time to avoid them speaking openly about it though (athletes, doctors and such). "More doubtful than East Germany"....if we're being exact, then yeah, since they destroyed the physical evidence better, but that bar is basically half a centimeter above the floor.

[Josh 11,523]

53 minutes ago, heywoodu said:

Heptathlon starts tomorrow, and that is basically useless to follow without a forecast, so, what is the best place for a good forecast nowadays?

This is the best I could find

 

https://www.ten7events.com

[copravolley 498]

8 minutes ago, heywoodu said:

Yes, the Soviets did a better job at destroying the documents than the Stasi did. Didn't manage to kill everyone in time to avoid them speaking openly about it though (athletes, doctors and such). "More doubtful than East Germany"....if we're being exact, then yeah, since they destroyed the physical evidence better, but that bar is basically half a centimeter above the floor.

In my opinion, if Szewinska was already a respected and influential figure in a free Poland after 1989 and there was a cult of her successes, then no politician, official, fan, etc., even an anti-communist one, was crazy enough to accuse her at the time, as it would have been suicidal. I think this was the case in all countries from east camp, but I'm writing about Szewinska because I lived in Poland in that time at the time and know what it was like. I can only speculate about the Czech Republic or Bulgaria.

Edited September 18 by copravolley

[Monzanator 4,768]

33 minutes ago, copravolley said:

In Poland in the 1990s was a cult of Szewinska, but then again, Koch and other DDR athletes was considered a dopper  Funny thing. I wonder how they talk about it in Germany now? 

The 1990s were quite poor in Polish athletics. We had Korzeniowski & Partyka and nobody else. The best woman was probably Urszula Włodarczyk in the heptathlon who always lost to the Americans and Sabine Braun anyway.

 

If you exclude Wanda Panfil's 1991 unexpected gold in the marathon no Polish woman won a WCh medal in the track & field events until Monika Pyrek in 2001.  Between 1983 and 2005 women won three medals (Panfil & Pyrek x2). Then Jesien (2007) a surprise in 400H and 2009 was the start of Anita Włodarczyk's tenure (Anna Rogowska finally won a WCh medal too).

 

Long story short, Szewińska had little competition as to being the face of female athletics in Poland. Even our hurdlers from the early 80s carried very minimal public recognition into the 90s and beyond.

 

Poland had their own "suspicious cases". Stanislawa Walasiewicz from the 1930s (can't pin that on communism and well, that's a clear cut case these days) and Ewa Kłobukowska in 1967.

[copravolley 498]

9 minutes ago, Monzanator said:

The 1990s were quite poor in Polish athletics. We had Korzeniowski & Partyka and nobody else. The best woman was probably Urszula Włodarczyk in the heptathlon who always lost to the Americans and Sabine Braun anyway.

 

If you exclude Wanda Panfil's 1991 unexpected gold in the marathon no Polish woman won a WCh medal in the track & field events until Monika Pyrek in 2001.  Between 1983 and 2005 women won three medals (Panfil & Pyrek x2). Then Jesien (2007) a surprise in 400H and 2009 was the start of Anita Włodarczyk's tenure (Anna Rogowska finally won a WCh medal too).

 

Long story short, Szewińska had little competition as to being the face of female athletics in Poland. Even our hurdlers from the early 80s carried very minimal public recognition into the 90s and beyond.

 

Poland had their own "suspicious cases". Stanislawa Walasiewicz from the 1930s (can't pin that on communism and well, that's a clear cut case these days) and Ewa Kłobukowska in 1967.

Put yourself in Poland's shoes in the early 1990s: a poor country, an uncertain international situation, inflation probably over 100% before Balcerowicz reform, zero good roads, zero modern infrastructure etc., nothing. The main goal was joining NATO and the EU, deep reforms and infrastructure construction, not prosecution in former sports stars from the communist era, who enjoyed the recognition and respect of most of public society at tha time. So, I understand that, but I'm not going to write, that everything in sports during the PRL era was okay, because it wasn't. There's simply no point in messing with it anymore, that's all. Therefore, it would be best if all those old, questionable records were broken already, which is why I regret that Koch record still stands.

 

The 1930s are such distant history that there is probably no point in writing about it, for example, there is no point in writing now about Italy's two World Cup titles in football during the Mussolini era, etc., and how they were won.

Edited September 18 by copravolley

[Monzanator 4,768]

3 minutes ago, copravolley said:

Put yourself in Poland's shoes in the early 1990s: a poor country, an uncertain international situation, inflation probably over 100% before Balcerowicz reform, zero good roads, zero modern infrastructure etc., nothing. The main goal was joining NATO and the EU, deep reforms and infrastructure construction, not bringing in former sports stars from the communist era, who enjoyed the recognition and respect of most of society at tha time. So, I understand that, but I'm not going to write, that everything in sports during the PRL era was okay, because it wasn't. There's simply no point in messing with it anymore, that's all. Therefore, it would be best if all those old, questionable records were broken already, which is why I regret that Koch record still stands.

 

I'm old enough to have lived in the early 90s with a conscious mind and I know how bad it was in athletics and several other sports. The 1984 boycott set us back years, Seoul 1988 was low on medals and we slightly bounced back in 1992 but only 1996 was back to the respectable results.

 

1980s were really bad compared to the 60s and 70s where we were a "powerhouse" in athletics, boxing, weightlifting & fencing. 

 

Funnily enough swimming was one sport where we never did any good and have zero historical PRL success until Artur Wojdat in the late 80s/early 90s (who was allowed to train in the USA since he was a teenager).