[POLL] Do you think the AIN status for Russia and Belarus at Paris Olympics is justified? Road to Paris 2024

[Faramir 173]

4 minutes ago, De_Gambassi said:

Do you really believe that if the war against Ukraine had been started in April, IOC decisions would have been any different ?

War in April + no precedent + Russians not being on thin ice since 2016 for that other small thing? Yes

[nitinsanker 193]

38 minutes ago, Faramir said:

How is this related to my comment about breaches of the Olympic truce? Russia started 3 wars in the last 16 years during said truce. That's a matter concerning the IOC. Massive breaches of the antidoping regulations are also concerning the IOC. The rest is not.

 

The U.S. has had its own share of apparent violations of the Truce — wars in the Middle East, namely. In 1998, the IOC implored the U.S. not to violate the spirit of the Truce by engaging in military action against Iraq.

“Not to my knowledge is any of the decision-making or thinking that the president and his senior policy leaders are undertaking affected by sporting events,” then-White House spokesperson Mike McCurry retorted.

 

So what do you say to this 

[Faramir 173]

14 minutes ago, nitinsanker said:

The U.S. has had its own share of apparent violations of the Truce — wars in the Middle East, namely. In 1998, the IOC implored the U.S. not to violate the spirit of the Truce by engaging in military action against Iraq.

“Not to my knowledge is any of the decision-making or thinking that the president and his senior policy leaders are undertaking affected by sporting events,” then-White House spokesperson Mike McCurry retorted.

 

So what do you say to this 

That you must have googled a lot to find a little reference of 1998 to something related to a possible violation (that did happen or not? Need to check what then happened in february '98 with Iraq...apparently nothing so no violation)...totally the same scale of things

 

 

Edited Friday at 06:38 PM by Faramir

[nitinsanker 193]

1 hour ago, Faramir said:

That you must have googled a lot to find a little reference of 1998 to something related to a possible violation (that did happen or not? Need to check what then happened in february '98 with Iraq...apparently nothing so no violation)...totally the same scale of things

 

 

Let look at facts 

 

1) what is the Olympic truce - it says all warring parties ( including those who are at war ) should cease hostilities for a certain period of time ...starting from a few days before the games to few days after the games to allow for athletes to come and go freely ....

 

2) during this period of time from early 1990s  when the idea was adopted America is the country which has been continually  in the most conflicts 

 

3) America has  not ceased hostilities at any point during the Olympics and has  violated the truce freely ..... 

 

For example this article in 2004 when many countries signed the truce declaration before the athens games says 

 

 

"The truce, however, is clearly not observed by Washington, which has troops fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Asked why US forces were not observing an Olympic cease-fire, US Secretary of State Colin Powell told reporters on Friday that while the idea was a noble one, "The world does not stop entirely for the Olympics."

 

Serbias head basketball coach recently  said "They say that Russia violated the Olympic rules, but I want to emphasise that the United States violated such rules 35 times, almost 20 countries, including serbia," he said"

 

I have not counted but I suppose every games where USA are fighting a war they do not stop, so violate this truce ......so must be a big number ....... I would like you to show me one example where usa says "hey we are going to cease all our hostilities during the period of the games" other than ceremoniously signing this so called truce  ( so do Google ) 

 

Edited Friday at 08:02 PM by nitinsanker

[Pasolini 233]

On 6/27/2024 at 9:18 AM, nenad said:

My last post on this subject, too. 

 

There are different points of view and in this day and age propaganda war is more important than ever. One could argue that Russia invaded Ukraine because they are truly evil people. Someone else might argue that Russia just invaded parts of Ukraine to protect independent republics and Russian speaking people who identify more with Russia than the regime in Kiev (or Kyiv as they would say now) which has close ties to known neo nazi organizations. The truth is probably somewhere in between and this is the consequence to collective west and Nato poking the bear and getting closer and closer to Russian borders and it's sphere of influence. And of course Ukrainian people is the one suffering. So, IOC in no way should be the arbiter of "truth" especially given it's silence on number of other conflicts and war crimes.. 

 

We talked about Israel. If Russia is punished why not Israel? Because they were attacked on Sept 7? Yeah, they were attacked. But three points on that. They were attacked why? Does it maybe have to do something with decades of silent genocide on Palestinians? Did Israel Palestinian conflict started on Sept 7? Secondly, is their response proportionate? Not bloody likely. One crime doesn't justify 100s of others. And thirdly, could Russia have the same answer as Israel in saying, yeah our people in Donbas has been attacked, why wouldn't we defend them? 

 

And Belarus is punished for Russia using their territory like they have any saying in that. And if Belarus is punished, than why Americans aren't punished for providing bombs to Israelis, why Gulf countries aren't punished for providing arms to Hamas and Iran for Hezbollah and Turkey for providing safe pathway to ISIS to come into Syria and devastate both them and Iraq. We could go on for days like this. 

 

Point being, history is going to be written by victors. If Nazis won WW2, we wouldn't be hearing about concentration camps and killing of jews, but sure they would talk about some allied crimes for sure. We know in Serbia there were crimes committed by partisans and chetniks and russians and germans too. Only difference were some were more heinous and some were more reported depending on a time who was in charge of country. 

 

IOC should not be on the side of "western democracies" in deciding what's fair and what's not, it should be only about sports, but we all know who is in charge in this world. Still.. But not for long I would think. 

Thanks for being a sensible voice in this thread! 
History and politics are not one-sided. But it's hard to people (directly affected specially) to notice it.

[Pavlo 79]

On 6/28/2024 at 7:29 PM, nitinsanker said:

 

 A group of powerful countries invaded a less powerful country , occupied it for 12 years or so , killed 600 thousand civilians , executed its president .. .  This was in 2003 ....Poland was one of the countries do you think Poland should have been banned .....

So you know things about Poland i didn't know😂, i had to miss invading other country by Poland. Are sure of your words? Wow, what a level 🙂. If terrorists are from muslim countries mostly should we ban all muslim countries? We invaded Lithuania after WWI what was shameful but that's it my friend. Soldiers of many nations are on different missions, i assume you know it. Maybe not. 

[nitinsanker 193]

1 hour ago, Pavlo said:

So you know things about Poland i didn't know😂, i had to miss invading other country by Poland. Are sure of your words? Wow, what a level 🙂. If terrorists are from muslim countries mostly should we ban all muslim countries? We invaded Lithuania after WWI what was shameful but that's it my friend. Soldiers of many nations are on different missions, i assume you know it. Maybe not. 

The invasion began on 19 March 2003 and lasted just over one month,^[23] including 26 days of major combat operations, in which a United States-led combined force of troops from the United States, the United Kingdom, Australia and Poland invaded the Republic of Iraq. Twenty-two days after the first day of the invasion, the capital city of Baghdad was captured by coalition forces on 9 April after the six-day-long Battle of Baghdad.  military forces later remained in Iraq until the withdrawal in 2011

 

An estimated 

 

So bro....

Edited Sunday at 12:36 PM by nitinsanker

[nitinsanker 193]

2 hours ago, nitinsanker said:

The invasion began on 19 March 2003 and lasted just over one month,^[23] including 26 days of major combat operations, in which a United States-led combined force of troops from the United States, the United Kingdom, Australia and Poland invaded the Republic of Iraq. Twenty-two days after the first day of the invasion, the capital city of Baghdad was captured by coalition forces on 9 April after the six-day-long Battle of Baghdad.  military forces later remained in Iraq until the withdrawal in 2011

 

 

 

So bro...lancet estimated 654,965 excess deaths in Iraq  related to the war, or 2.5% of the population .   400000were due to violence. 31% (186,318) of those were attributed to the US-led Coalition, 200000 (144,246) to others, and 46% (276,472) unknown. The causes of violent deaths were gunshot (56% or 336,575), car bomb (13% or 78,133), other explosion/ordnance (14%), air strike (13% or 78,133), accident (2% or 12,020), and unknown (2%)

 

 

Ok so 600000 of the population is killed when usa , Poland , Uk a joint coalition force invaded Iraq .... 

 

This is a war crime of great proportions:  600000 people died as per the lancet study .. . 

 

you call it a foreign mission ... I sometimes find the hypocrisy of western countries suprising .....let us admit it-1)   they lied  saying WMD , 2) a group of nations invaded Iraq including Poland ( bylorussia is being banned just for giving use of airfields , you actively sent your troops) ....

 

3) so should you be banned ? 

 

I still don't see why you cannot admit it or say it was a major  invasion by western power elite countries .... Do not cover up by saying it was a mission by a few soldiers ....

 

Edited Sunday at 03:19 PM by nitinsanker

[Pavlo 79]

7 hours ago, nitinsanker said:

The invasion began on 19 March 2003 and lasted just over one month,^[23] including 26 days of major combat operations, in which a United States-led combined force of troops from the United States, the United Kingdom, Australia and Poland invaded the Republic of Iraq. Twenty-two days after the first day of the invasion, the capital city of Baghdad was captured by coalition forces on 9 April after the six-day-long Battle of Baghdad.  military forces later remained in Iraq until the withdrawal in 2011

 

An estimated 

 

So bro....

Do you see any difference between USA, NATO and...Poland? We can duscuss about Hussain regim, just read about his son. Qadafi was also good? Some Polish soldiers took part in this mission, not Poland. Russia invaded Ukraine with full force. Some our soldiers also tried to keep peace in Afghanistan? Now is it better there? C'mon, Hussain was a dictator. Poland didn't invade Iraq 🙂.  Russia also recruits soldiers from other countries, i think i heard sth about Nepal, Central African states, North Korea. But it doesnt mean that Nepal or Chad invaded Ukraine even if some their soldiers fight there. 

Edited Sunday at 07:35 PM by Pavlo