[POLL] Do you think the AIN status for Russia and Belarus at Paris Olympics is justified?

[Adriano 590]

Oh my post in different thread was deleted. Yes I am counting on reallocations from Israel. For example in Rhythmic Gymnastic. Israel should be banned also. They did horrible things even more like Russian (the were horrible too).

[Pavlo 139]

But looking at it from strategic point of view if goverment decides to have a war the same goverment has to face many limitations on many fields, cultural, sportive, economical etc. In a way sport is a part of national promotion etc. so looking at this from that point of view this is fair in my opinion. Ukrainians pay the real price, the fact that some athletes are not allowed to OG is irrelevant to the value of Ukrainian lifes. Would German athlets be allowed to compete if we had 1940 and 1944 OG? Should they, Japanese and Italian too? Rather not and this is similar. In my opinion justified as to Russia. I don't get it as to Belarus. Olympic cart leaves the gap to such decision...if Russia would really want to change it the solution is easy...leave Ukraine. It seems really simple, my opinion. Also resulting with ways of conducting this war by Russia, unhuman ways with war crimes. I think you forget about this. Maybe if it was just a war of armies it should go other way round. How this war looks...sorry, in my opinion harsh but justified verdict. Let's make the world better. They even withdraw the athletes who could compete. Living in Poland we really know what Russia is about, dirty play 100%, i assure you. 100% bad intentions. This is it from me here. 

Edited June 27 by Pavlo

[Cinnamon Bun 534]

 

2 hours ago, Adriano said:

Oh my post in different thread was deleted. Yes I am counting on reallocations from Israel. For example in Rhythmic Gymnastic. Israel should be banned also. They did horrible things even more like Russian (the were horrible too).

I'm just wondering, since you think Israel should be banned do you think that Palestine should be banned also for the horrible things they've done to Israel? 

Edited June 27 by Cinnamon Bun

[nenad 442]

My last post on this subject, too. 

 

There are different points of view and in this day and age propaganda war is more important than ever. One could argue that Russia invaded Ukraine because they are truly evil people. Someone else might argue that Russia just invaded parts of Ukraine to protect independent republics and Russian speaking people who identify more with Russia than the regime in Kiev (or Kyiv as they would say now) which has close ties to known neo nazi organizations. The truth is probably somewhere in between and this is the consequence to collective west and Nato poking the bear and getting closer and closer to Russian borders and it's sphere of influence. And of course Ukrainian people is the one suffering. So, IOC in no way should be the arbiter of "truth" especially given it's silence on number of other conflicts and war crimes.. 

 

We talked about Israel. If Russia is punished why not Israel? Because they were attacked on Sept 7? Yeah, they were attacked. But three points on that. They were attacked why? Does it maybe have to do something with decades of silent genocide on Palestinians? Did Israel Palestinian conflict started on Sept 7? Secondly, is their response proportionate? Not bloody likely. One crime doesn't justify 100s of others. And thirdly, could Russia have the same answer as Israel in saying, yeah our people in Donbas has been attacked, why wouldn't we defend them? 

 

And Belarus is punished for Russia using their territory like they have any saying in that. And if Belarus is punished, than why Americans aren't punished for providing bombs to Israelis, why Gulf countries aren't punished for providing arms to Hamas and Iran for Hezbollah and Turkey for providing safe pathway to ISIS to come into Syria and devastate both them and Iraq. We could go on for days like this. 

 

Point being, history is going to be written by victors. If Nazis won WW2, we wouldn't be hearing about concentration camps and killing of jews, but sure they would talk about some allied crimes for sure. We know in Serbia there were crimes committed by partisans and chetniks and russians and germans too. Only difference were some were more heinous and some were more reported depending on a time who was in charge of country. 

 

IOC should not be on the side of "western democracies" in deciding what's fair and what's not, it should be only about sports, but we all know who is in charge in this world. Still.. But not for long I would think. 

[Faramir 359]

Aside from the usual THE WEST BAD YADDA YADDA, as far as I know this is the list of countries that broke the Olympic truce, which is matter clearly concerning the IOC:
- Russia in 2022;

- Russia in 2014;

- Russia in 2008.

 

Any other? 

[Monzanator 4,457]

The biggest Polish sports newspaper run a story where they suggest Sabalenka, Kaladzinskaya (wrestling) and the sprint canoer were in fact blackmailed by the Belarussian state in order to be removed from the Games (i.e. they did everything to expose the ties to the state which would void their eligibility no matter how the athletes tried to distance themselves from it). For Lukashenka having the athletes not competing at the Games is more useful than if they did compete. Overall the anti-Sabalenka bias has slightly subsided in recent months though some tennis commentators still think Russia & Belarus should be banned outright from ATP & WTA but that's never going to happen.

 

https://przegladsportowy.onet.pl/igrzyska-olimpijskie/paryz-2024/drugie-dno-decyzji-aryny-sabalenki-nawet-propagandysci-aleksandra-lukaszenki-sie/hr56nel

[nitinsanker 202]

On 6/27/2024 at 5:48 PM, nenad said:

 

 

There are different points of view 

 

On 6/27/2024 at 3:55 PM, Pavlo said:

But looking at it from strategic point of view if goverment decides to have a war the same goverment has to face many limitations on many fields, cultural, sportive, economical etc. In a way sport is a part of national promotion etc. so looking at this from that point of view this is fair in my opinion. Ukrainians pay the real price, the fact that some athletes are not allowed to OG is irrelevant to the value of Ukrainian lifes. Would German athlets be allowed to compete if we had 1940 and 1944 OG? Should they, Japanese and Italian too? Rather not and this is similar. In my opinion justified as to Russia. I don't get it as to Belarus. Olympic cart leaves the gap to such decision...if Russia would really want to change it the solution is easy...leave Ukraine. It seems really simple, my opinion. Also resulting with ways of conducting this war by Russia, unhuman ways with war crimes. I think you forget about this. Maybe if it was just a war of armies it should go other way round. How this war looks...sorry, in my opinion harsh but justified verdict. Let's make the world better. They even withdraw the athletes who could compete. Living in Poland we really know what Russia is about, dirty play 100%, i assure you. 100% bad intentions. This is it from me here. 

 A group of powerful countries invaded a less powerful country , occupied it for 12 years or so , killed 600 thousand civilians , executed its president .. .  This was in 2003 ....Poland was one of the countries do you think Poland should have been banned .....

[nitinsanker 202]

On 6/27/2024 at 6:31 PM, Faramir said:

Aside from the usual THE WEST BAD YADDA YADDA, as far as I know this is the list of countries that broke the Olympic truce, which is matter clearly concerning the IOC:
- Russia in 2022;

- Russia in 2014;

- Russia in 2008.

 

Any other? 

I am listing only US invasions of other countries 

1954	Guatemala	CIA overthrows the government of President Jacobo Arbenz Guzman.
1958	Lebanon	US marines and army units totaling 14,000 land.
1958	Panama	Clashes between US forces in Canal Zone and local citizens.
1959	Haiti	Marines land.
1960	Congo	CIA-backed overthrow and assassination of Prime Minister Patrice Lumumba.
1960-1964	Vietnam	Gradual introduction of military advisors and special forces.
1961	Cuba	CIA-backed Bay of Pigs invasion.
1962	Cuba	Nuclear threat and naval blockade.
1962	Laos	CIA-backed military coup.
1963	Ecuador	CIA backs military overthrow of President Jose Maria Valesco Ibarra.
1964	Panama	Clashes between US forces in Canal Zone and local citizens.
1964	Brazil	CIA-backed military coup overthrows the government of Joao Goulart and Gen. Castello Branco takes power. Read More
1965-1975	Vietnam	Large commitment of military forces, including air, naval and ground units numbering up to 500,000+ troops. Full-scale war, lasting for ten years.
1965	Indonesia	CIA-backed army coup overthrows President Sukarno and brings Gen. Suharto to power.
1965	Congo	CIA backed military coup overthrows President Joseph Kasavubu and brings Joseph Mobutu to power.
1965	Dominican Republic	23,000 troops land.
1965-1973	Laos	Bombing campaign begin, lasting eight years.
1966	Ghana	CIA-backed military coup ousts President Kwame Nkrumah.
1966-1967	Guatemala	Extensive counter-insurgency operation.
1969-1975	Cambodia	CIA supports military coup against Prince Sihanouk, bringing Lon Nol to power. Intensive bombing for seven years along border with Vietnam.
1970	Oman	Counter-insurgency operation, including coordination with Iranian marine invasion.
1971-1973	Laos	Invasion by US and South Vietnames forces.
1973	Chile	CIA-backed military coup ousts government of President Salvador Allende. Gen. Augusto Pinochet comes to power.
1975	Cambodia	Marines land, engage in combat with government forces.
1976-1992	Angola	Military and CIA operations.
1980	Iran	Special operations units land in Iranian desert. Helicopter malfunction leads to aborting of planned raid.
1981	Libya	Naval jets shoot down two Libyan jets in maneuvers over the Mediterranean.
1981-1992	El Salvador	CIA and special forces begin a long counterinsurgency campaign.
1981-1990	Nicaragua	CIA directs exile "Contra" operations. US air units drop sea mines in harbors.
1982-1984	Lebanon	Marines land and naval forces fire on local combatants.
1983	Grenada	Military forces invade Grenada.
1983-1989	Honduras	Large program of military assistance aimed at conflict in Nicaragua.
1984	Iran	Two Iranian jets shot down over the Persian Gulf.
1986	Libya	US aircraft bomb the cities of Tripoli and Benghazi, including direct strikes at the official residence of President Muamar al Qadaffi.
1986	Bolivia	Special Forces units engage in counter-insurgency.
1987-1988	Iran	Naval forces block Iranian shipping. Civilian airliner shot down by missile cruiser.
1989	Libya	Naval aircraft shoot down two Libyan jets over Gulf of Sidra.
1989	Philippines	CIA and Special Forces involved in counterinsurgency.
1989-1990	Panama	27,000 troops as well as naval and air power used to overthrow government of President Noriega.
1990	Liberia	Troops deployed.
1990-1991	Iraq	Major military operation, including naval blockade, air strikes; large number of troops attack Iraqi forces in occupied Kuwait.
1991-2003	Iraq	Control of Iraqi airspace in north and south of the country with periodic attacks on air and ground targets.
1991	Haiti	CIA-backed military coup ousts President Jean-Bertrand Aristide.
1992-1994	Somalia	Special operations forces intervene.
1992-1994	Yugoslavia	Major role in NATO blockade of Serbia and Montenegro.
1993-1995	Bosnia	Active military involvement with air and ground forces.
1994-1996	Haiti	Troops depose military rulers and restore President Jean-Bertrand Aristide to office.
1995	Croatia	Krajina Serb airfields attacked.
1996-1997	Zaire (Congo)	Marines involved in operations in eastern region of the country.
1997	Liberia	Troops deployed.
1998	Sudan	Air strikes destroy country's major pharmaceutical plant.
1998	Afghanistan	Attack on targets in the country.
1998	Iraq	Four days of intensive air and missile strikes.
1999	Yugoslavia	Major involvement in NATO air strikes.
2001	Macedonia	NATO troops shift and partially disarm Albanian rebels.
2001	Afghanistan	Air attacks and ground operations oust Taliban government and install a new regime.
2003	Iraq	Invasion with large ground, air and naval forces ousts government of Saddam Hussein and establishes new government.
2003-present	Iraq	Occupation force of 150,000 troops in protracted counter-insurgency war
2004	Haiti	Marines land. CIA-backed forces overthrow President Jean-Bertrand Aristide.

Edited June 28 by nitinsanker

[Faramir 359]

21 minutes ago, nitinsanker said:

I am listing only US invasions of other countries 

1954	Guatemala	CIA overthrows the government of President Jacobo Arbenz Guzman.
1958	Lebanon	US marines and army units totaling 14,000 land.
1958	Panama	Clashes between US forces in Canal Zone and local citizens.
1959	Haiti	Marines land.
1960	Congo	CIA-backed overthrow and assassination of Prime Minister Patrice Lumumba.
1960-1964	Vietnam	Gradual introduction of military advisors and special forces.
1961	Cuba	CIA-backed Bay of Pigs invasion.
1962	Cuba	Nuclear threat and naval blockade.
1962	Laos	CIA-backed military coup.
1963	Ecuador	CIA backs military overthrow of President Jose Maria Valesco Ibarra.
1964	Panama	Clashes between US forces in Canal Zone and local citizens.
1964	Brazil	CIA-backed military coup overthrows the government of Joao Goulart and Gen. Castello Branco takes power. Read More
1965-1975	Vietnam	Large commitment of military forces, including air, naval and ground units numbering up to 500,000+ troops. Full-scale war, lasting for ten years.
1965	Indonesia	CIA-backed army coup overthrows President Sukarno and brings Gen. Suharto to power.
1965	Congo	CIA backed military coup overthrows President Joseph Kasavubu and brings Joseph Mobutu to power.
1965	Dominican Republic	23,000 troops land.
1965-1973	Laos	Bombing campaign begin, lasting eight years.
1966	Ghana	CIA-backed military coup ousts President Kwame Nkrumah.
1966-1967	Guatemala	Extensive counter-insurgency operation.
1969-1975	Cambodia	CIA supports military coup against Prince Sihanouk, bringing Lon Nol to power. Intensive bombing for seven years along border with Vietnam.
1970	Oman	Counter-insurgency operation, including coordination with Iranian marine invasion.
1971-1973	Laos	Invasion by US and South Vietnames forces.
1973	Chile	CIA-backed military coup ousts government of President Salvador Allende. Gen. Augusto Pinochet comes to power.
1975	Cambodia	Marines land, engage in combat with government forces.
1976-1992	Angola	Military and CIA operations.
1980	Iran	Special operations units land in Iranian desert. Helicopter malfunction leads to aborting of planned raid.
1981	Libya	Naval jets shoot down two Libyan jets in maneuvers over the Mediterranean.
1981-1992	El Salvador	CIA and special forces begin a long counterinsurgency campaign.
1981-1990	Nicaragua	CIA directs exile "Contra" operations. US air units drop sea mines in harbors.
1982-1984	Lebanon	Marines land and naval forces fire on local combatants.
1983	Grenada	Military forces invade Grenada.
1983-1989	Honduras	Large program of military assistance aimed at conflict in Nicaragua.
1984	Iran	Two Iranian jets shot down over the Persian Gulf.
1986	Libya	US aircraft bomb the cities of Tripoli and Benghazi, including direct strikes at the official residence of President Muamar al Qadaffi.
1986	Bolivia	Special Forces units engage in counter-insurgency.
1987-1988	Iran	Naval forces block Iranian shipping. Civilian airliner shot down by missile cruiser.
1989	Libya	Naval aircraft shoot down two Libyan jets over Gulf of Sidra.
1989	Philippines	CIA and Special Forces involved in counterinsurgency.
1989-1990	Panama	27,000 troops as well as naval and air power used to overthrow government of President Noriega.
1990	Liberia	Troops deployed.
1990-1991	Iraq	Major military operation, including naval blockade, air strikes; large number of troops attack Iraqi forces in occupied Kuwait.
1991-2003	Iraq	Control of Iraqi airspace in north and south of the country with periodic attacks on air and ground targets.
1991	Haiti	CIA-backed military coup ousts President Jean-Bertrand Aristide.
1992-1994	Somalia	Special operations forces intervene.
1992-1994	Yugoslavia	Major role in NATO blockade of Serbia and Montenegro.
1993-1995	Bosnia	Active military involvement with air and ground forces.
1994-1996	Haiti	Troops depose military rulers and restore President Jean-Bertrand Aristide to office.
1995	Croatia	Krajina Serb airfields attacked.
1996-1997	Zaire (Congo)	Marines involved in operations in eastern region of the country.
1997	Liberia	Troops deployed.
1998	Sudan	Air strikes destroy country's major pharmaceutical plant.
1998	Afghanistan	Attack on targets in the country.
1998	Iraq	Four days of intensive air and missile strikes.
1999	Yugoslavia	Major involvement in NATO air strikes.
2001	Macedonia	NATO troops shift and partially disarm Albanian rebels.
2001	Afghanistan	Air attacks and ground operations oust Taliban government and install a new regime.
2003	Iraq	Invasion with large ground, air and naval forces ousts government of Saddam Hussein and establishes new government.
2003-present	Iraq	Occupation force of 150,000 troops in protracted counter-insurgency war
2004	Haiti	Marines land. CIA-backed forces overthrow President Jean-Bertrand Aristide.

How is this related to my comment about breaches of the Olympic truce? Russia started 3 wars in the last 16 years during said truce. That's a matter concerning the IOC. Massive breaches of the antidoping regulations are also concerning the IOC. The rest is not.

 

Edited June 28 by Faramir

[De_Gambassi 1,223]

On 6/27/2024 at 3:01 PM, Faramir said:

Aside from the usual THE WEST BAD YADDA YADDA, as far as I know this is the list of countries that broke the Olympic truce, which is matter clearly concerning the IOC:
- Russia in 2022;

- Russia in 2014;

- Russia in 2008.

 

Any other? 

Do you really believe that if the war against Ukraine had been started in April, IOC decisions would have been any different ?