[OFF TOPIC] General Chat

[bestmen 2,909]

Nah in greece the plane hits itself 

 

[Bearas 602]

the fact that you find that even funny.....

[bestmen 2,909]

I'll not cry because canada sells damaged planes to naive people or because the pilot was drunk nd smashed himself 

[OlympicsFan 860]

22 hours ago, lapaj said:

1: To those employees are surely good but to the country is not good!

3: In general.

5: Is this capitalism? How dare we save money to buy cheaper gas? I understand the moral side of this question, but Hungary is a poor country ( see 1:). So if we suck this is capitalism, but if something is good to Hungary we are blamed! Blackmailing with what? The EU is blackmailing Hungary! With money, with Erasmus prorgamme, or this:

https://www.politico.eu/article/suspend-hungary-eu-presidency-sanction-precaution/

 

1) How so?

3) Again: I have no problem with Hungary not wanting to spend money on refugees, not sure why you keep bringing it up. From a german perspective of course it doesn't seem very smart to pay billions of euros per year to Hungary while Hungary doesn't help with the refugee situation. German officials don't really seem to have a problem with it though.

5) I don't believe in morality. It just isn't in the best interest of Germany (or the EU in general) to "allow" Hungary to be in a position where they can easily be blackmailed by Russia into sabotaging the EU. You have an absurd definition of blackmailing if you think that the EU is blackmailing Hungary. Hungary gets billion of euros from the EU, the least they can expect in return is for Hungary to not sabotage the EU whenever Russia tells them to. Hungary is trying to play both sides and the EU should force them to decide. In the end Hungary is clearly a net negative for the EU. Hopefully in 2025 Germany will get a new government that will end this clownshow and get Germany out of the EU (very unlikely, but it isn't forbidden to dream).

[lapaj 428]

On 8/22/2023 at 10:09 PM, OlympicsFan said:

1) How so?

3) Again: I have no problem with Hungary not wanting to spend money on refugees, not sure why you keep bringing it up. From a german perspective of course it doesn't seem very smart to pay billions of euros per year to Hungary while Hungary doesn't help with the refugee situation. German officials don't really seem to have a problem with it though.

5) I don't believe in morality. It just isn't in the best interest of Germany (or the EU in general) to "allow" Hungary to be in a position where they can easily be blackmailed by Russia into sabotaging the EU. You have an absurd definition of blackmailing if you think that the EU is blackmailing Hungary. Hungary gets billion of euros from the EU, the least they can expect in return is for Hungary to not sabotage the EU whenever Russia tells them to. Hungary is trying to play both sides and the EU should force them to decide. In the end Hungary is clearly a net negative for the EU. Hopefully in 2025 Germany will get a new government that will end this clownshow and get Germany out of the EU (very unlikely, but it isn't forbidden to dream).

1: They save money from Hungary!

3: Refugees are the Ukrainians. The Afgans, etc. are migrants!  Hungary do not spend money to the migrants? Barb wire, surveillance system, vehicles (their reparation after the migrants throw them concrete pieces), border guards! EU doesn't pay anything!

The EU buys ammunition for Ukraine! But Hungary does not supply weapons to Ukraine, so the Hungarian part goes elsewhere!
If the EU spends money on migrants, every country has a share in it!

Again! You said that every EU taxpayer has the right to know how much Orbán is getting rich. I agreed! I wrote that I would also be interested in this (migrants)!

5. a: If I am correct, Germany is just building its first LNG terminal. So Russian gas would be good for Germany, but the Nord Stream somehow blew up. So Germany is forced to represent this position!

b: What do you think? Putin calls Orban and orders him? Putin knows Orban is not else just a pm of a small country. A trading partner.

c: You said there are landlocked countries that don't rely on russian gas! There are five landlock countries in the EU! I think Luxenburg never used russian gas. The other four: Austria and Chechia partly, Hungary and Slovakia mostly supply russian by gas. So no, the others did not solved anything!

d: The Hungarian FM said before a cnsultation meeting he gets some sms: "Will you block it, wont you?" Yes, because the FM or Orban (in this question) do not care about the others. So that Hungary is the black sheep!

Political parties won election because they said "we stop the migration!" Or this:

https://www.euronews.com/2022/11/17/austria-serbia-and-hungary-strike-migration-deal-saying-eu-measures-have-failed

But then:

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2023/06/30/poland-and-hungary-hijack-eu-summit-with-anti-migration-demands

Do you still believe what the politicans say?

e: billions of euros. One explain from the many: Hungary got money from the EU to develop the trasport service of Budapest. Budapest ordered Mercedes-Benz Conecto buses, so the money went back to Germany.

f: In Hungary the ratio of residential-industrial gas consumption is 40-60. And the German companies take part in the consumption of the cheap russian gas. Which is not that cheap than before because the Russians are not stupid!

g: Ahman Iliev was in Hungary four days ago. Agreed to store 50 million cubic meters gas in Hungary!

h: If you think we are swimming in gas:

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/w/DDN-20230419-1

Edited August 24, 2023 by lapaj

[OlympicsFan 860]

20 minutes ago, lapaj said:

1: They save money from Hungary!

3: Refugees are the Ukrainians. The Afgans, etc. are migrants!  Hungary do not spend money to the migrants? Barb wire, surveillance system, vehicles (their reparation after the migrants throw them concrete pieces), border guards! EU doesn't pay anything!

The EU buys ammunition for Ukraine! But Hungary does not supply weapons to Ukraine, so the Hungarian part goes elsewhere!
If the EU spends money on migrants, every country has a share in it!

Again! You said that every EU taxpayer has the right to know how much Orbán is getting rich. I agreed! I wrote that I would also be interested in this (migrants)!

5. a: If I am correct, Germany is just building its first LNG terminal. So Russian gas would be good for Germany, but the Nord Stream somehow blew up. So Germany is forced to represent this position!

b: What do you think? Putin calls Orban and orders him? Putin knows Orban is not else just a pm of a small country. A trading partner.

c: You said there are landlocked countries that don't rely on russian gas! There are five landlock countries in the EU! I think Luxenburg never used russian gas. The other four: Austria and Chechia partly, Hungary and Slovakia mostly supply russian by gas. So no, the others did not solved anything!

d: The Hungarian FM said before a cnsultation meeting he gets some sms: "Will you block it, wont you?" Yes, because the FM or Orban (in this question) do not care about the others. So that Hungary is the black sheep!

Political parties won election because they said "we stop the migration!" Or this:

https://www.euronews.com/2022/11/17/austria-serbia-and-hungary-strike-migration-deal-saying-eu-measures-have-failed

But then:

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2023/06/30/poland-and-hungary-hijack-eu-summit-with-anti-migration-demands

Do you still believe what the politicans say?

e: billions of euros. One explain from the many: Hungary got money from the EU to develop the trasport service of Budapest. Budapest ordered Mercedes-Benz Conecto buses, so the money went back to Germany.

f: In Hungary the ratio of residential-industrial gas consumption is 40-60. And the German companies take part in the consumption of the cheap russian gas. Which is not that cheap than before because the Russians are not stupid!

g: Ahman Iliev was in Hungary four days ago. Agreed to store 50 million cubic meters gas in Hungary!

h: If you think we are swimming in gas:

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/w/DDN-20230419-1

Sorry, but this discussion with you clearly leads nowhere. Either you are just uninformed or you just can't express your opinion properly in english. It is very hard/impossible to follow and you keep bringing up new things that aren't really related.

[lapaj 428]

17 minutes ago, OlympicsFan said:

Sorry, but this discussion with you clearly leads nowhere. Either you are just uninformed or you just can't express your opinion properly in english. It is very hard/impossible to follow and you keep bringing up new things that aren't really related.

Tell me what is not related?

[OlympicsFan 860]

4 hours ago, lapaj said:

Tell me what is not related?

1) "Refugees are the Ukrainians. The Afgans, etc. are migrants!"

Some ukrainians are refugees and some aren't. Some afghans are refugees and some aren't. The only thing i know is that you can't tell from the distances whether a random person from Ukraine/Afghanistan qualifies as refugee or not. I don't even think that you can even tell whether they are actually from Ukraine/Afghanistan. This is a completely different topic. Neither you nor any other person in Hungary can just randomly decide who qualifes as a refugee and who doesn't. I guess in the end this is just an excuse to not have to take in any people from Afghanistan. Even if i would follow your logic, i would have to ask the following two questions:

a) So how many ukrainian refugees has Hungary actually taken in (compared to countries like the Czech Republic or Moldova)?

b) What about people from Syria? Are those also no real refugees?

Again: I have no problem with hungarian people not wanting to take in any refugees, but don't make up obvious lies.

 

2) "Hungary do not spend money to the migrants? Barb wire, surveillance system, vehicles (their reparation after the migrants throw them concrete pieces), border guards! EU doesn't pay anything!"

I think the EU should help securing the border, but please don't act as if you are doing this for the EU. You are doing this out of your own interest. The refugees just switched to a different route and therefore all of this didn't really help other european countries.

 

3) "The EU buys ammunition for Ukraine! But Hungary does not supply weapons to Ukraine, so the Hungarian part goes elsewhere!"

So where does the hungarian part go? Not only don't you supply weapons to Ukraine (which doesn't bother me), but you still help Russia financing the war (by buying their gas) and you are also actively sabotaging NATO. How about you just admit that Hungary is completely dependant on Russia and doesn't want to lose cheap gas? At least that would be honest. I don't blame Hungary for doing that, but don't act as if there are no alternatives for Hungary and don't act as if you don't understand that this is hurting other EU countries that transfer billions of euros every year to Hungary.

4) "If the EU spends money on migrants, every country has a share in it!"

No idea what that means. So what share does Hungary have?

 

5) "Again! You said that every EU taxpayer has the right to know how much Orbán is getting rich. I agreed! I wrote that I would also be interested in this (migrants)!"

No idea what that means.

 

6) "If I am correct, Germany is just building its first LNG terminal. So Russian gas would be good for Germany, but the Nord Stream somehow blew up. So Germany is forced to represent this position!"

Germany has had many LNG terminals for quite some time, so your information is incorrect. Also Germany stopped buying russian gas (through Nordstream) before the pipeline was blown up.

 

7) "What do you think? Putin calls Orban and orders him? Putin knows Orban is not else just a pm of a small country. A trading partner."

Pretty much, Orban is the light version of Lukashenko for Putin. Russia has been using gas to blackmail other countries for almost two decades. If you really believe that Hungary is just a "trading partner" for Russia, then i have a bridge to sell you ...

Orban repeatedly has sabotaged the EU/NATO by taking over russian positions. You might also look into what happened with the Nabuco pipeline.

 

8) "You said there are landlocked countries that don't rely on russian gas! There are five landlock countries in the EU! I think Luxenburg never used russian gas. The other four: Austria and Chechia partly, Hungary and Slovakia mostly supply russian by gas. So no, the others did not solved anything!"

As far as i know the Czech Republic, Slovakia and Germany stopped receiving russian gas last year because Russia couldn't accept that they support Ukraine. Italy, Austria and Hungary on the other hand still import russian gas. The difference between Italy and Hungary is that Italy plans to stop importing russian gas soon (as far as i know), while Hungary just signed a new contract to import even more russian gas. Italy is also helping Ukraine with weapons, while Hungary blocked 500 million euros of military aid in the EU. You can spin it whichever way you want, in the end Hungary is doing whatver Russia wants (blocking military aid, sabotaging EU/NATO) and in return they get cheap gas from Russia. This might be in Hungary's best interest, but please don't act as if there are no alternatives. Hungary just doesn't give a shit about any of their EU/NATO partners. I don't criticize this behavior, but i criticize EU countries like Germany for allowing Hungary to behave like that. Austria also isn't much better than Hungary.

 

9) "The Hungarian FM said before a cnsultation meeting he gets some sms: "Will you block it, wont you?" Yes, because the FM or Orban (in this question) do not care about the others. So that Hungary is the black sheep!

Political parties won election because they said "we stop the migration!" Or this:

https://www.euronews.com/2022/11/17/austria-serbia-and-hungary-strike-migration-deal-saying-eu-measures-have-failed

But then:

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2023/06/30/poland-and-hungary-hijack-eu-summit-with-anti-migration-demands

Do you still believe what the politicans say?"

No idea what you are trying to say. I am not sure why i have to repeat that i have no problem with Hungary not wanting to take in refugees. I have a problem with countries like Germany allowing Hungary to cherrypick. If Hungary doesn't want to take in refugees and constantly acts against the interest of other EU countries (importing russian gas, blocking military aid), then they don't need to get any money from countries like Germany. Hungary only wants the money but doesn't want to give anything in return. Poland at least took in tons of ukrainian refugees (after claiming that refugees from Syria are culturally too different), but Hungary just doesn't provide any help whatsoever.

 

10) "billions of euros. One explain from the many: Hungary got money from the EU to develop the trasport service of Budapest. Budapest ordered Mercedes-Benz Conecto buses, so the money went back to Germany."

I couldn't find anything about this deal on the internet. Only thing i could find was a deal made by Daimler in 2012 to provide 159 Citaro busses. Doesn't sound like a huge deal, especially when you consider that Merceds has invested billions of euros in Hungary over the past few years. Not sure how much of that money actually goes back to Germany (instead of the (mostly foreign) shareholder's pockets) and benefits the german taxpayers.

 

11) "In Hungary the ratio of residential-industrial gas consumption is 40-60. And the German companies take part in the consumption of the cheap russian gas. Which is not that cheap than before because the Russians are not stupid!"

Again no idea what that means. Could you maybe name the german companies that "take part in the consumption of the cheap russian gas"?

 

12) "Ahman Iliev was in Hungary four days ago. Agreed to store 50 million cubic meters gas in Hungary!"

Nice to hear that Hungary is trying to diversify. I think this will make Hungary less dependant on Russia. Also nice that you have established yourself that there is an alternative to russian gas even for landlocked countries. Sounded different before, but maybe i misunderstood you.

 

Edited August 24, 2023 by OlympicsFan

[lapaj 428]

15 hours ago, OlympicsFan said:

1) "Refugees are the Ukrainians. The Afgans, etc. are migrants!"

Some ukrainians are refugees and some aren't. Some afghans are refugees and some aren't. The only thing i know is that you can't tell from the distances whether a random person from Ukraine/Afghanistan qualifies as refugee or not. I don't even think that you can even tell whether they are actually from Ukraine/Afghanistan. This is a completely different topic. Neither you nor any other person in Hungary can just randomly decide who qualifes as a refugee and who doesn't. I guess in the end this is just an excuse to not have to take in any people from Afghanistan. Even if i would follow your logic, i would have to ask the following two questions:

a) So how many ukrainian refugees has Hungary actually taken in (compared to countries like the Czech Republic or Moldova)?

b) What about people from Syria? Are those also no real refugees?

Again: I have no problem with hungarian people not wanting to take in any refugees, but don't make up obvious lies.

 

2) "Hungary do not spend money to the migrants? Barb wire, surveillance system, vehicles (their reparation after the migrants throw them concrete pieces), border guards! EU doesn't pay anything!"

I think the EU should help securing the border, but please don't act as if you are doing this for the EU. You are doing this out of your own interest. The refugees just switched to a different route and therefore all of this didn't really help other european countries.

 

3) "The EU buys ammunition for Ukraine! But Hungary does not supply weapons to Ukraine, so the Hungarian part goes elsewhere!"

So where does the hungarian part go? Not only don't you supply weapons to Ukraine (which doesn't bother me), but you still help Russia financing the war (by buying their gas) and you are also actively sabotaging NATO. How about you just admit that Hungary is completely dependant on Russia and doesn't want to lose cheap gas? At least that would be honest. I don't blame Hungary for doing that, but don't act as if there are no alternatives for Hungary and don't act as if you don't understand that this is hurting other EU countries that transfer billions of euros every year to Hungary.

4) "If the EU spends money on migrants, every country has a share in it!"

No idea what that means. So what share does Hungary have?

 

5) "Again! You said that every EU taxpayer has the right to know how much Orbán is getting rich. I agreed! I wrote that I would also be interested in this (migrants)!"

No idea what that means.

 

6) "If I am correct, Germany is just building its first LNG terminal. So Russian gas would be good for Germany, but the Nord Stream somehow blew up. So Germany is forced to represent this position!"

Germany has had many LNG terminals for quite some time, so your information is incorrect. Also Germany stopped buying russian gas (through Nordstream) before the pipeline was blown up.

 

7) "What do you think? Putin calls Orban and orders him? Putin knows Orban is not else just a pm of a small country. A trading partner."

Pretty much, Orban is the light version of Lukashenko for Putin. Russia has been using gas to blackmail other countries for almost two decades. If you really believe that Hungary is just a "trading partner" for Russia, then i have a bridge to sell you ...

Orban repeatedly has sabotaged the EU/NATO by taking over russian positions. You might also look into what happened with the Nabuco pipeline.

 

8) "You said there are landlocked countries that don't rely on russian gas! There are five landlock countries in the EU! I think Luxenburg never used russian gas. The other four: Austria and Chechia partly, Hungary and Slovakia mostly supply russian by gas. So no, the others did not solved anything!"

As far as i know the Czech Republic, Slovakia and Germany stopped receiving russian gas last year because Russia couldn't accept that they support Ukraine. Italy, Austria and Hungary on the other hand still import russian gas. The difference between Italy and Hungary is that Italy plans to stop importing russian gas soon (as far as i know), while Hungary just signed a new contract to import even more russian gas. Italy is also helping Ukraine with weapons, while Hungary blocked 500 million euros of military aid in the EU. You can spin it whichever way you want, in the end Hungary is doing whatver Russia wants (blocking military aid, sabotaging EU/NATO) and in return they get cheap gas from Russia. This might be in Hungary's best interest, but please don't act as if there are no alternatives. Hungary just doesn't give a shit about any of their EU/NATO partners. I don't criticize this behavior, but i criticize EU countries like Germany for allowing Hungary to behave like that. Austria also isn't much better than Hungary.

 

9) "The Hungarian FM said before a cnsultation meeting he gets some sms: "Will you block it, wont you?" Yes, because the FM or Orban (in this question) do not care about the others. So that Hungary is the black sheep!

Political parties won election because they said "we stop the migration!" Or this:

https://www.euronews.com/2022/11/17/austria-serbia-and-hungary-strike-migration-deal-saying-eu-measures-have-failed

But then:

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2023/06/30/poland-and-hungary-hijack-eu-summit-with-anti-migration-demands

Do you still believe what the politicans say?"

No idea what you are trying to say. I am not sure why i have to repeat that i have no problem with Hungary not wanting to take in refugees. I have a problem with countries like Germany allowing Hungary to cherrypick. If Hungary doesn't want to take in refugees and constantly acts against the interest of other EU countries (importing russian gas, blocking military aid), then they don't need to get any money from countries like Germany. Hungary only wants the money but doesn't want to give anything in return. Poland at least took in tons of ukrainian refugees (after claiming that refugees from Syria are culturally too different), but Hungary just doesn't provide any help whatsoever.

 

10) "billions of euros. One explain from the many: Hungary got money from the EU to develop the trasport service of Budapest. Budapest ordered Mercedes-Benz Conecto buses, so the money went back to Germany."

I couldn't find anything about this deal on the internet. Only thing i could find was a deal made by Daimler in 2012 to provide 159 Citaro busses. Doesn't sound like a huge deal, especially when you consider that Merceds has invested billions of euros in Hungary over the past few years. Not sure how much of that money actually goes back to Germany (instead of the (mostly foreign) shareholder's pockets) and benefits the german taxpayers.

 

11) "In Hungary the ratio of residential-industrial gas consumption is 40-60. And the German companies take part in the consumption of the cheap russian gas. Which is not that cheap than before because the Russians are not stupid!"

Again no idea what that means. Could you maybe name the german companies that "take part in the consumption of the cheap russian gas"?

 

12) "Ahman Iliev was in Hungary four days ago. Agreed to store 50 million cubic meters gas in Hungary!"

Nice to hear that Hungary is trying to diversify. I think this will make Hungary less dependant on Russia. Also nice that you have established yourself that there is an alternative to russian gas even for landlocked countries. Sounded different before, but maybe i misunderstood you.

 

First, I think you assumes the following about Hungary:
a: Orban use EU money to enrich himself (Agreed),
b: It's a waste of EU (agreed, but there are much more waste, for ex. migrants, etc.),
c: Hungary alone use russian gas and do not want to change of it (obvious lie),

d: Hungary is financed with billions of euros! (True, but half of the EU is financed by the other half.)

 

1: There is war in Ukraine and Ukraine is a neighbouring country. Hungary is (one of the) first secure country. So they are refugees. This is not true to the Afgans and others! But there are tranzit zones where they can register for refugee status. Of coure it's hard for those whos threw away their papers.

a: more than a million arrived to Hungary (from Ukraine and from Romania) and about 2% of them remains in Hungary. (but in Hungary all of them are refugees!)

b: see abowe!

Do you heard that they opened fire for each other? Or attacks our borderguards from Serbia? Do we let them into the EU? Because neither me nor any other person in Hungary can just randomly decide who qualifes as a refugee and who doesn't.

 

2: EU has the benefit of it. But you are right they use different route, but this is not Hungary's mistake!

 

3: Politicans are hypocrits. Many EU countries trade with Russia, and some of them buy russian gas! (no, not only Hungary).

See sanction packade 11:

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_23_3429

"New anti-circumvention tool"! Hungary does not circumvent anything!

 

4: ok.

 

5: ok.

 

6: ok.

 

7: What EU sanctions did Hungary prevent? Or the other side, what solution did the EU offer instead of russian gas? True, in the last thirty years Hungary did nothing to divers its gas supply! But Hungary had to stop using Russian gas one day to another because the EU says? Is it realistic?

Again! No, not only Hungary use russian gas. But tell me what Hungary sabotaged?

 

8: What do you think?

https://www.politico.eu/article/russia-gas-europe-lng-putin/

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/whos-still-buying-russian-fossil-fuels-in-2023/

 

9: Politicians are hypocrites. I wanted to introduce it. Because one veto is enough, some of them prefer to be quiet!

Please look at the process: they win the elections because they say something or they are coming to Hungary to check us. Then when they have to vote, they do something completely different, because Hungary is there anyway!

"Hungary just doesn't provide any help whatsoever." Is it a joke? As I wrote more than a million of them entered to Hungary! The humanitary help is continues! Ukraine buys the 6% of its diesel from Hungary! Etc. Or Hungary sent 34 buses to help the evakuation of Nova Kakharovka! Two day after the disaster!

 

10: As I said it is only one example! There are many.

On the other hand this is a huge help to Hungary (and other countries), I just wanted to say some (or a lot of) money remains in the EU!

 

Do you think Mercedes would be here if it wasn't worth it?

 

11: About three thousand German companies are in Hungary! Why I have to name them? Cheaper russian gas is used in Hungary. So most of them!

 

12: My problem is that it doesn't work one day to another. But EU awaits it!

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/hungary-will-receive-lng-qatar-starting-2027-minister-2023-08-18/

Edited August 25, 2023 by lapaj

[lapaj 428]

0

Edited August 25, 2023 by lapaj