Rhythmic Gymnastics 2020 Discussion Thread

[thiago_simoes 1,423]

On 08/07/2020 at 10:01, heywoodu said:

What's up with coaches calling athletes fat? I mean, I get that coaching involves doing more than just saying "you are amazing" all the time, but come on. I remember Gabriela Koukalova (biathlon) talking about how her coach used to call her, quote, 'a fat pig'...when she was still a teenager. No doubt there are many, many, many more examples.

It's insane. I remember one commentator saying that Halkina has a body that "does not follow the standards" in rhythmic gymnastics because she has curves. CURVES! And some people even dared to call her fat because of that.

 

NCAA, on the other hand, lets artistic gymnasts perform without a care in the world about their own weight.

[thiago_simoes 1,423]

From FIG: “The IOC informed in a letter relating Olympic Games 2024/Paris that gender equality will be in all disciplines among the participants. The question arises how gender equality is calculated within the disciplines of the FIG. Each discipline by themselves or all together (MAG/WAG; RG; TRA). WAG does not want to reduce their quota places. WAG wants to have the same quota as MAG.”

By the way it's written, it looks like the IOC sees Gymnastics as one sport with several disciplines, pretty much like Aquatics. There's already gender equality when it comes to the number of podiums:

4 in WAG + 2 in RG + 1 in trampoline = 7
6 in MAG + 1 in trampoline = 7

In order to achieve an equal number of individuals across all disciplines, WAG absolutely needs to lose quotas. Also, the following changes would have to occur:

1) RG groups must go.
2) A new RG team event would have to be created, with 2 gymnasts per team
3) Teams in AG would need to be reduced to 8

Then, I see this happening:

MAG: 40 (8 teams) + 58 individuals
WAG: 40 (8 teams) + 24 individuals
RG: 16 (8 teams) + 18 individuals
TRA: 16 women + 16 men

I don't see how this improves things in any way. In fact, this would drastically reduce the number nations competing. But if they want gender equality, this is what could be done right now. Of course, these are just my ideas, and there's also a chance that men's rhythmic gymnastics will be pushed forward (although, right now, it's almost non-existent around the world). Either way, this could be a huge problem for rhythmic gymnastics.

[Federer91 2,793]

I will just insert my motto for the current IOC: "Always expect the worst and be prepared when they go even worser!" 

[Olympian1010 7,972]

This is my main problem with the IOC’s plan for gender equality. We shouldn’t be eliminating men’s events and quotas in order to add women’s events. We should just add the women’s events. Would that make the Olympics bigger? Yes. Higher costs? Possibly. But it would have been the correct way to go about gender equality. There’s a lot of institutional reform the IOC could make if they really wanted to cut cost too. 

[thiago_simoes 1,423]

On further revision, this system is slightly better than my original proposal:

MAG: 40 (8 teams) + 60 individuals
WAG: 40 (8 teams) + 34 individuals
RG: 16 (8 teams) + 13 individuals
TRA: 13 women + 16 men
 

WAG
40 quotas: 8 teams (5 gymnasts) at the World Championships
8 quotas: World Championships - All-Around competition
12 quotas: World Championships - Event Finals (if quotas remain after EFs, give them to AA)
3 quotas: Top 3 gymnasts at the All-Around World Cup series
4 quotas: Overall winners in each apparatus at the World Cup series
1 quota: Host nation
1 quota: Tripartite invitation
1 quota: Asian Championships - All-Around competition
1 quota: European Championships - All-Around competition
1 quota: Oceania Championships - All-Around competition
1 quota: Pan American Championships - All-Around competition
1 quota: African Championships - All-Around competition

MAG
40 quotas: 8 teams (5 gymnasts) at the World Championships
16 quotas: World Championships - All-Around competition
18 quotas: World Championships - Event Finals (if quotas remain after EFs, give them to AA)
8 quotas: Top 8 gymnasts at the All-Around World Cup series
6 quotas: Overall winners in each apparatus at the World Cup series
1 quota: Host nation
1 quota: Tripartite invitation
2 quotas: Asian Championships - All-Around competition
2 quotas: European Championships - All-Around competition
2 quotas: Oceania Championships - All-Around competition
2 quotas: Pan American Championships - All-Around competition
2 quotas: African Championships - All-Around competition

RG
16 quotas: 8 teams (2 gymnasts) at the World Championships
3 quotas: World Championships - All-Around competition
3 quotas: Top 3 gymnasts at the All-Around World Cup series
1 quota: Host nation
1 quota: Tripartite invitation
1 quota: Asian Championships - All-Around competition
1 quota: European Championships - All-Around competition
1 quota: Oceania Championships - All-Around competition
1 quota: Pan American Championships - All-Around competition
1 quota: African Championships - All-Around competition

TRA - Women
6 quotas: World Championships
1 quota: Best gymnast at the World Cup series
1 quota: Host nation
1 quota: Asian Championships
1 quota: European Championships
1 quota: Oceania Championships
1 quota: Pan American Championships
1 quota: African Championships
 

TRA - Men
6 quotas: World Championships
3 quotas: Top 3 gymnasts at the World Cup series
1 quota: Host nation
1 quota: Tripartite invitation
1 quota: Asian Championships
1 quota: European Championships
1 quota: Oceania Championships
1 quota: Pan American Championships
1 quota: African Championships

[Olympian1010 7,972]

Nah, Trampoline needs at least 16 quotas or it’s a farce event. Honestly, the field is already weak enough there under the current system.

[thiago_simoes 1,423]

6 minutes ago, Olympian1010 said:

Nah, Trampoline needs at least 16 quotas or it’s a farce event. Honestly, the field is already weak enough there under the current system.

I wouldn't be against it, but this means 3 extra quotas in men's artistic gymnastics.

I thought this would reduce the number of countries competing, but instead this would increase the number of nations! There are 68 nations that would qualify at the World Championships alone, plus extra quotas for every continent. I'm not even sure there are 80+ nations with active male artistic gymnasts. I'm sure this would be great for nations like Namibia, Kuwait, Qatar and Sri Lanka, though.

[Olympian1010 7,972]

3 hours ago, thiago_simoes said:

I wouldn't be against it, but this means 3 extra quotas in men's artistic gymnastics.

I thought this would reduce the number of countries competing, but instead this would increase the number of nations! There are 68 nations that would qualify at the World Championships alone, plus extra quotas for every continent. I'm not even sure there are 80+ nations with active male artistic gymnasts. I'm sure this would be great for nations like Namibia, Kuwait, Qatar and Sri Lanka, though.

Right, but it’s important to remember that we also have to consider that 500-600 quotas need to be cut from the Olympic program. It’s also my personal feeling that Gymnastics is already somewhat privileged position when it comes to quotas. This is how I’d revise the gymnastics program.

 

6 WAG + 2 RG + 1 TR = 9 women’s events

8 MAG + 1 TR = 9 men’s events

 

Rhythmic Gymnastics would get a new team event similar to the Artistic Gymnastics Team All-Around event. Each team would be formed by 2 gymnasts, and final score is the combined total of the gymnasts score in Individual All-Around Qualification. 
 

Quota Distribution:

AR - 74 W / 104 M

RG - 30 W

TR - 16 W / 16 M

 

Quota Different from Tokyo2020 to Paris2024: - 50

 

Qualification Systems:

 

Women’s Artistic Gymnastics -

48 Quotas: 12 teams (4 gymnasts) from the World Championships

8 Quotas: Individual All-Around from the World Championships

4 Quotas: World Championships - Individual Event Finals (best placed athlete in each event from a non-qualified NOC)

3 Quotas: Top 3 gymnasts at the All-Around World Cup series
4 Quotas: Overall winners in each apparatus at the World Cup series
1 quota: Host nation
1 quota: Tripartite invitation
1 quota: Asian Championships - All-Around competition
1 quota: European Championships - All-Around competition
1 quota: Oceania Championships - All-Around competition
1 quota: Pan American Championships - All-Around competition
1 quota: African Championships - All-Around competition

 

Men’s Artistic Gymnastics -

48 Quotas: 12 teams (4 gymnasts) at the World Championships
12 Quotas: World Championships - All-Around competition
18 Quotas: World Championships - Event Finals (if quotas remain after EFs, give them to AA)
8 Quotas: Top 8 gymnasts at the All-Around World Cup series
6 Quotas: Overall winners in each apparatus at the World Cup series
1 quota: Host nation
1 quota: Tripartite invitation
2 quotas: Asian Championships - All-Around competition
2 quotas: European Championships - All-Around competition
2 quotas: Oceania Championships - All-Around competition
2 quotas: Pan American Championships - All-Around competition
2 quotas: African Championships - All-Around competition

 

Rhythmic Gymnastics - 

16 Quotas: 8 teams (2 gymnasts) at the World Championships
4 Quotas: World Championships - All-Around competition
3 Quotas: Top 3 gymnasts at the All-Around World Cup series
1 quota: Host nation
1 quota: Tripartite invitation
1 quota: Asian Championships - All-Around competition
1 quota: European Championships - All-Around competition
1 quota: Oceania Championships - All-Around competition
1 quota: Pan American Championships - All-Around competition
1 quota: African Championships - All-Around competition

Trampoline - (Same for Men and Women)

8 Quotas: World Championships*
1 quotas: Top gymnast at the World Cup series*
1 quota: Host nation
1 quota: Tripartite invitation
1 quota: Asian Championships
1 quota: European Championships
1 quota: Oceania Championships
1 quota: Pan American Championships
1 quota: African Championships

* = Reallocation criteria. NOCs can only qualify one gymnast for the OG. All 8 finalists from the World Championships qualify, unless they would be the second or more gymnasts from their nation. In the case there are quotas left after all eligible finalists have received a quota, then the quota is reallocated using the World Cup series standings.

 

 

So, that’s my proposal. What do you think?

[thiago_simoes 1,423]

14 hours ago, Olympian1010 said:

So, that’s my proposal. What do you think?

I like it a lot, but there's a catch: FIG stated that from 2024 on, teams in AG will go back to the old format: 5 gymnasts per nation. Nobody likes this system where only 4 are allowed to compete at the Olympics and up to 2 extra gymnasts qualify through the World Cup series or the continental championships. With 5 gymnasts in each team, we would need to lower the numbers of teams to 10, and increase the total number of gymnasts to 4. Not really a tragedy, but this still puts into danger some traditional teams like Ukraine's men's team and Romania's women's team. But this is the best proposal given what the IOC wants for the Olympics, I guess.

[Olympian1010 7,972]

31 minutes ago, thiago_simoes said:

I like it a lot, but there's a catch: FIG stated that from 2024 on, teams in AG will go back to the old format: 5 gymnasts per nation. Nobody likes this system where only 4 are allowed to compete at the Olympics and up to 2 extra gymnasts qualify through the World Cup series or the continental championships. With 5 gymnasts in each team, we would need to lower the numbers of teams to 10, and increase the total number of gymnasts to 4. Not really a tragedy, but this still puts into danger some traditional teams like Ukraine's men's team and Romania's women's team. But this is the best proposal given what the IOC wants for the Olympics, I guess.

That’s on the FIG and Gymnastics community more than the IOC really. I get that people like the 5 athletes per team format, but that a easy and simple place to cut quotas. There aren’t very many team events in individual sports where you can qualify three athletes for a team, plus two “reserves/substitutes” (I know the they still compete and score points, I’m just not sure what to refer to 4 and 5 as, since you only technically need 3 gymnasts to form a team).