[OFF TOPIC] Politics Thread

[OlympicsFan 860]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb LDOG:

The posts here are a bit confusing..... from the info you guys are giving it does seem to me, however, like an slight attempt at censorship of a minority from dutch/german governments. In the dutch case, are they denying entrance just on a presumption that there could be incidents or there is some law that forbids foreign governments from campaigning on dutch soil or sth?

 

PS. I don't care about the politics, just legal considerations.

Just some thoughts (i guess you dont know german, otherwise i could send you some articles):

1) German tax payers have to pay for the security measures that are needed to keep Erdogan safe and not allow a riot to happen. This is very expensive and if every turkish politican comes to Germany ten times a year (exaggeration), german people might wonder why they have to pay millions of dollars for this ...

2) If Erdogan would travel to Germany as the head of the turkish state, it would be pretty easy to forbid his public speeches, but he doesnt, instead he and his ministers come to Germany as private persons, so they normally cant be denied to speak publicly, unless one has to expect that there will be riots/violence between his supporters and his opponents. We are not there yet, but we might get there pretty soon. Foreign politicians who visit Germany to talk about politics arent (automatically) granted freedom of assembly, so if he would visit Germany as head of the turkish state, he probably wouldnt be allowed to give that kind of speech.

3) Not a political argument, but an ethical one: Is it "right" to allow him to "use" a law that grants him the right for free speech, while at the same time he is trying everything to take that freedom away from from millions of his countrymen? Does a democracy have to tolerate all opinions, even if someone is "campaigning" against basic human rights/freedom of speech/democracy itself?

4) Currently the only way for the german government to stop Erdogan from giving his speech in Germany would be to assume that he doesnt come to Germany as a private person (but as the head of the turkish state instead) and consquently not allow him to enter Germany at all, but we all know that nothing like that will happen, after all Germany needs Turkey (refugee deal) and Turkey is a fellow NATO member.

 

I dont know anything about dutch laws concerning this topic.

Edited March 14, 2017 by OlympicsFan

[heywoodu 16,468]

3 hours ago, Federer91 said:

 

I heard there is a Pirate Party, you should try them.  

Maybe, they're the only one who have a clue about the current digital world  

[Pavlo 149]

Just look at the "first woman`s council in Saudi Arabia" picture...and try to find.....1 woman!!

 

http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2017/03/14/saudi-arabia-unveils-womens-council-attended-solely-by-men/

[VolleyRuller96 264]

Well, today is the Moment of Truth for the Dutch So good luck, remember every vote counts  hopefully they will pick  reasonable people to govern them

[heywoodu 16,468]

Just seeing Donald Tusk talking in Dutch at the European Parliament (about the Turkey-thing, stating his support for the Netherlands), cool  

[heywoodu 16,468]

2 hours ago, VolleyRuller96 said:

Well, today is the Moment of Truth for the Dutch So good luck, remember every vote counts  hopefully they will pick  reasonable people to govern them

I watched the big final debates last night, and sadly Wilders was the only one with actually a bit of a 'good' debate (making his points instead of just denying all questions). Which is annoying, because I really don't want to vote for him  

 

All others just seemed weak...apart from one of the Christian parties, so I'm thinking about voting on them  

[Pavlo 149]

2 godziny temu, heywoodu napisał:

I watched the big final debates last night, and sadly Wilders was the only one with actually a bit of a 'good' debate (making his points instead of just denying all questions). Which is annoying, because I really don't want to vote for him  

 

All others just seemed weak...apart from one of the Christian parties, so I'm thinking about voting on them  

it`s always like this, populistic politics "seem" to be stronger and better, it`s always easier to attack - we have to use our minds to figure out what`s on their mind in fact. Polish nation failed...i wish Dutch won`t fail

[heywoodu 16,468]

2 minutes ago, Pavlo said:

it`s always like this, populistic politics "seem" to be stronger and better, it`s always easier to attack - we have to use our minds to figure out what`s on their mind in fact. Polish nation failed...i wish Dutch won`t fail

Well, Wilders is still around 9th-11th place on my 'ranking' after spending half the morning and the past hours thinking about who to vote for, so I'm still not voting for him  

 

My doubts are between CDA (a Christian party but not so 'strict' as the two others, slightly right of the centre) and VVD (the party of the current prime minister and also slightly right of the centre). I'm probably going for CDA, because unlike the two other Christian parties, they're not so strongly opposed to basic human freedoms like gay marriage. They're somewhat against euthanasia, which is a shame, but they also accept to keep the current laws (which make it possible and legal), so that's alright  

[Pavlo 149]

23 minuty temu, heywoodu napisał:

Well, Wilders is still around 9th-11th place on my 'ranking' after spending half the morning and the past hours thinking about who to vote for, so I'm still not voting for him  

 

My doubts are between CDA (a Christian party but not so 'strict' as the two others, slightly right of the centre) and VVD (the party of the current prime minister and also slightly right of the centre). I'm probably going for CDA, because unlike the two other Christian parties, they're not so strongly opposed to basic human freedoms like gay marriage. They're somewhat against euthanasia, which is a shame, but they also accept to keep the current laws (which make it possible and legal), so that's alright  

oh man!! that`s good, so your "cool" christian party accepts freedoms like gay marriage?? Our coolest left wing party even won`t think about it (besides some small parties with some 0.1% popularity) and the most "cool" christian party will describe it as sickness, sth unnatural, un-polish sin etc :). Gay marriage as a "basic human freedom" does not exist in polish political world. Oh man, Poland is really in dark ages still :/

Edited March 15, 2017 by Pavlo

[heywoodu 16,468]

1 minute ago, Pavlo said:

oh man!! that`s good, so your "cool" christian party accepts freedoms like gay marriage?? Our coolest left wing party even won`t think about it (besides some small parties with some 0.1% popularity) and the most "cool" christian party will describe it as sickness, sth unnatural, un-polish sin etc :). Gay marriage as a "basic human freedom" does not exist in polish political world. Oh man, POland is really in dark ages still :/

They're not a big fan of it, but they mostly accept that people should make their own choices on that and the government shouldn't say whether or not they can marry