Ski Jumping at the Winter Olympic Games 2018

[LowerSaxony 205]

  On 2/17/2018 at 7:11 PM, OlympicsFan said:

 if Germany doesn't win the team event, the olympics were a complete fail for german ski jumping.

Expand  

How can 1 gold and 2 silver after 3 events (additionally excellent perspectives for a team medal) be a complete fail for german ski jumping?! It's not that Germans completely dominated ski jumping during the last years..

[heywoodu 15,339]

  On 2/18/2018 at 10:57 AM, LowerSaxony said:

How can 1 gold and 2 silver after 3 events (additionally excellent perspectives for a team medal) be a complete fail for german ski jumping?! It's not that Germans completely dominated ski jumping during the last years..

Expand  

One gold and two silves after three events is actually a very good score. Especially considering in one event (women) gold would have been a surprise (you know, thanks to Lundby) and with Poland and Norway being generally stronger, winning one men's event is just really, really good. 

[OlympicsFan 860]

  On 2/18/2018 at 10:57 AM, LowerSaxony said:

How can 1 gold and 2 silver after 3 events (additionally excellent perspectives for a team medal) be a complete fail for german ski jumping?! It's not that Germans completely dominated ski jumping during the last years..

Expand  

I don't want to answer to you and heywoodu, so here is my answer to both of you:

Calling Poland and Norway stronger is just kindergarten, please look at the overall world cup. Count the number of world cup victories and then think again whether it makes sense to call Norway stronger.

Althaus and Freitag both dominated the beginning of the season and then clearly got worse, otherwise they would have been the favorites here and certainly at least one of them would have won gold. After the season so far only 2 individual medals in the two individual competitions on the men's side certainly must be considered disappointing. Stoch winning gold here is just sad, of course he will be gone in 4 years, but other talents (Prevc) might take the gold then, so this was the big chance for Wellinger.

[LowerSaxony 205]

  On 2/18/2018 at 11:15 AM, OlympicsFan said:

I don't want to answer to you and heywoodu, so here is my answer to both of you:

Calling Poland and Norway stronger is just kindergarten, please look at the overall world cup. Count the number of world cup victories and then think again whether it makes sense to call Norway stronger.

Althaus and Freitag both dominated the beginning of the season and then clearly got worse, otherwise they would have been the favorites here and certainly at least one of them would have won gold. After the season so far only 2 individual medals in the two individual competitions on the men's side certainly must be considered disappointing. Stoch winning gold here is just sad, of course he will be gone in 4 years, but other talents (Prevc) might take the gold then, so this was the big chance for Wellinger.

Expand  

Freitag has every reason to be disappointed (as we'll never know how he would have performed without his fall in Innsbruck). But Wellinger wasn't that dominant during the season that you can predict two medals for sure. And the women's jumping: The podium reflects perfectly the world cup season. All three women deserved exactly the medal which they won.

[rybak 3,239]

  On 2/17/2018 at 7:11 PM, OlympicsFan said:

Almost as horrible as the biathlon and the skeleton result, if Germany doesn't win the team event, the olympics were a complete fail for german ski jumping. At least we know that Stoch won't be there in 4 years, so hopefully Wellinger will take what he deserves.

Expand  

Well, it's obvious that Stoch won't be there in 4 years, no one will be there, as in 4 years from now the Games will be in Beijing and not in Korea as far as I know 

 

About judges points, not only Polish judge give Kamil 19.5, but also the Slovenian one and German one give him 19.0, so, where you see problem?

[OlympicsFan 860]

  On 2/18/2018 at 4:31 PM, rybak said:

Well, it's obvious that Stoch won't be there in 4 years, no one will be there, as in 4 years from now the Games will be in Beijing and not in Korea as far as I know 

 

About judges points, not only Polish judge give Kamil 19.5, but also the Slovenian one and German one give him 19.0, so, where you see problem?

Expand  

Wow ... brilliant response ...

Didn't think that anyone would be able to misunderstand my comment, but apparently i expected too much. Stoch "won't be there in 4 years" to fight for the medals, hope that clarifies it for you (he won't be around so to say).

My problem is that his landing was rather bad and for sure no 19 or even 19.5. Some athletes (for example Ammann) will always get worse points for the same landing than others (for example Stoch). I absolutely don't think that he deserved 19 or 19.5, but i have no proof that the judges deliberatly gave him scores that were too high, so it is just my opinion based on what i saw. It wasn't a clean telemark in my opinion. In order to prevent you from misunderstanding it again:

I think Stoch deserved 18, maybe 18.5, which still might have been enough for gold. Wellinger had very good conditions in the second round, so there is no doubt that Wellinger and Stoch were pretty much on the same level, either one could have won yesterday. Also i didn't intend to say that Stoch's landings in general are at the same level as those of Ammann, Stoch might even have the best landings in general and the polish athletes are clearly better at producing a telemark at big distances than the german athletes, who had very shaky landings very often this season.

[hckošice 15,110]

Men´s Teams Large Hill Start List

[rybak 3,239]

  On 2/18/2018 at 6:46 PM, OlympicsFan said:

Wow ... brilliant response ...

Didn't think that anyone would be able to misunderstand my comment, but apparently i expected too much. Stoch "won't be there in 4 years" to fight for the medals, hope that clarifies it for you (he won't be around so to say).

My problem is that his landing was rather bad and for sure no 19 or even 19.5. Some athletes (for example Ammann) will always get worse points for the same landing than others (for example Stoch). I absolutely don't think that he deserved 19 or 19.5, but i have no proof that the judges deliberatly gave him scores that were too high, so it is just my opinion based on what i saw. It wasn't a clean telemark in my opinion. In order to prevent you from misunderstanding it again:

I think Stoch deserved 18, maybe 18.5, which still might have been enough for gold. Wellinger had very good conditions in the second round, so there is no doubt that Wellinger and Stoch were pretty much on the same level, either one could have won yesterday. Also i didn't intend to say that Stoch's landings in general are at the same level as those of Ammann, Stoch might even have the best landings in general and the polish athletes are clearly better at producing a telemark at big distances than the german athletes, who had very shaky landings very often this season.

Expand  

Wow, you must be very sad person if you can't notice difference between joke or sarcasm and being serious

 

Don't be too mad that Wellinger didn't win second gold, you should be happy for this gold as I was yesterday for Stoch's gold, in addition Germany tops medal table by 8 days, so, I don't see point to be so harsh now. I will not mention now anything about Wellinger's luck about wind and judges points now, becuase you clearly aren't ready to talk in calm (I mean about "In order to prevent you from misunderstanding it again").

 

[heywoodu 15,339]

  On 2/18/2018 at 12:29 PM, LowerSaxony said:

Freitag has every reason to be disappointed (as we'll never know how he would have performed without his fall in Innsbruck). But Wellinger wasn't that dominant during the season that you can predict two medals for sure. And the women's jumping: The podium reflects perfectly the world cup season. All three women deserved exactly the medal which they won.

Expand  

Yep. Actually, Norway winning the team event (which would be the most expected result at the moment) would be a perfect way to end the men's ski jumping, with all three major nations at the moment winning a gold medal, as one might have hoped.

[OlympicsFan 860]

  On 2/18/2018 at 8:22 PM, rybak said:

Wow, you must be very sad person if you can't notice difference between joke or sarcasm and being serious

 

Don't be too mad that Wellinger didn't win second gold, you should be happy for this gold as I was yesterday for Stoch's gold, in addition Germany tops medal table by 8 days, so, I don't see point to be so harsh now. I will not mention now anything about Wellinger's luck about wind and judges points now, becuase you clearly aren't ready to talk in calm (I mean about "In order to prevent you from misunderstanding it again").

 

Expand  

Yeah, of course ... based on you constantly crying about Wellinger winning the first competition, it was completely obvious that you were joking. "... you must be very sad person ..." ... yeah, that sounds like someone who is ready to lead a calm discussion. Your last point is complete nonsense anyway, it doesn't matter whether i am completely calm or completely furious right now, i gave an argument and you weren't willing to discuss, blaming it on me being angry, which is of course an easy way to escape a discussion. Sadly you aren't willing to discuss, so it will probably remain a mystery forever, but i'd still like to ask what "... you should be happy for this gold ..." is supposed to mean? Are you saying that i should be happy about Stoch winning gold or what? The "... and judges points ..." part is a complete mystery as well to me. You are hinting something but then don't follow up on it in any way, so what exactly is your point? Right after i claim that Stoch got overscored, you suddenly come up with the idea that Wellinger got overscored as well? So basically your strategy to counter my argument is just saying the same i said about Stoch but now about Wellinger? Very creative indeed ...

I will never understand how any polish fan can cry about an athlete of an other nation getting lucky with the wind in this season, given how lucky Stoch got at the 4-hills tournament (unlike you i even used actual data to support my claim), of course Stoch/Hula not winning a medal on the normal hill also had nothing to do with the wind, i gave proof earlier, so i won't say the same over and over again, but Wellinger jumped 113.5 m to win the gold in the second round, although even 109 m very likely would have been enough to win the gold, so he was just better than anyone else that day. Stoch won the gold by about 3 points on a LARGE HILL while Wellinger won by about 8 points on a NORMAL HILL, but yeah, it was Wellinger's victory that was lucky ...