Football 2021 Discussion Thread

[thepharoah 2,413]

I don't put Messi even as the 5 th best player this season 

[LDOG 2,468]

42 minutes ago, thepharoah said:

I don't put Messi even as the 5 th best player this season 

Arguments?

[kungshamra71 948]

On 11/27/2021 at 11:49 PM, maestro said:

Palmeiras beat Flamengo 2-1, to win CONMEBOL Libertadores for a second consecutive season, for a second time in 2021 and for a third time in their history.

 

 

Its the third time in three or four years that a Portuguese coach wins the Libertadores (Jesus with flamengo and now Abel Ferreira twice with Palmeiras).

 

This year has been particularly successful for Portuguese coaches, as also one of ours (Leonardo Jardim) won the Asian champions league 

[kungshamra71 948]

43 minutes ago, thepharoah said:

 

Again a Bayern star has been robbed what a shame 

Honestly I don’t think people really give that much importance to that award anymore 

[thepharoah 2,413]

17 minutes ago, LDOG said:

Arguments?

 

what did he do throughout the year , his team conceded 4 from Paris and 8 from Bayern in UCL last 2 seasons , he barely scored his 1st goal in ligue 1 on GW 12 , no la liga , are Copa del rey and Copa America enough for Ballon d'or ? i don't think so , if it's by trophies then no one deserve it more than Jorginho , if it's by stats and trophies also no one is better than Liwa , with all due respect to Messi but this's one of the biggest thefts in history of football and i really lost trust in this prize more than even in the past  

[thepharoah 2,413]

 

Ballon d'or Winners 2021 

[Monzanator 4,768]

According to sources here are the Top 10 points:

 

1. Leo Messi – 613
2. Robert Lewandowski – 580
3. Jorginho – 460
4. Karim Benzema – 239
5. N’Golo Kante – 186
6. Cristiano Ronaldo – 176
7. Mohamed Salah – 121
8. Kevin de Bruyne – 73
9. Kylian Mbappe – 58
10. Gianluigi Donnarumma – 36

[LDOG 2,468]

1 hour ago, thepharoah said:

 

what did he do throughout the year , his team conceded 4 from Paris and 8 from Bayern in UCL last 2 seasons , he barely scored his 1st goal in ligue 1 on GW 12 , no la liga , are Copa del rey and Copa America enough for Ballon d'or ? i don't think so , if it's by trophies then no one deserve it more than Jorginho , if it's by stats and trophies also no one is better than Liwa , with all due respect to Messi but this's one of the biggest thefts in history of football and i really lost trust in this prize more than even in the past  

1) it's often a balance between individual stats and team achievements to decide the winner I believe. Jorginho won the 2 most important trophies but he wasn't the most pivotal player in either team, especially not in Chelsea who has way more important players. 

 

2) Winning Bundesliga is good, but Bayern wins every year literally. Copa del Rey is not amazing but winning the Copa America for Argentina in Brazil is. 

 

3) The 8 goals from Bayern were in 2020 so it's not relevant. Messi scored both of Barcelona's goals against PSG, what else can he do if that team doesn't defend and had no one other than him producing in attack?  

  

4) About the start of this season: the voting closed in October so I don't believe that it's a very important factor. Plus, unlike Lewandowski, he didn't do preseason and has travelled 3 times to south america in 3 months. His scoring+assist stats from January to July are huge.

 

5) Yes, the scoring stats of Lewandowski are crazy and far away from the rest this year but (something that everyone always forgets) Messi is NOT a striker, he's a playmaker. His scoring stats should be better compared to players like Bernardo Silva, Griezmann, Muller, Neymar, not to Lewandowski lol. Thing is, Messi has scored so many goals in his career that everyone forgets about this when comparing him to others and judges him with a completely different bar.

[thepharoah 2,413]

8 minutes ago, LDOG said:

1) it's often a balance between individual stats and team achievements to decide the winner I believe. Jorginho won the 2 most important trophies but he wasn't the most pivotal player in either team, especially not in Chelsea who has way more important players. 

 

2) Winning Bundesliga is good, but Bayern wins every year literally. Copa del Rey is not amazing but winning the Copa America for Argentina in Brazil is. 

 

3) The 8 goals from Bayern were in 2020 so it's not relevant. Messi scored both of Barcelona's goals against PSG, what else can he do if that team doesn't defend and had no one other than him producing in attack?  

  

4) About the start of this season: the voting closed in October so I don't believe that it's a very important factor. Plus, unlike Lewandowski, he didn't do preseason and has travelled 3 times to south america in 3 months. His scoring+assist stats from January to July are huge.

 

5) Yes, the scoring stats of Lewandowski are crazy and far away from the rest this year but (something that everyone always forgets) Messi is NOT a striker, he's a playmaker. His scoring stats should be better compared to players like Bernardo Silva, Griezmann, Muller, Neymar, not to Lewandowski lol. Thing is, Messi has scored so many goals in his career that everyone forgets about this when comparing him to others and judges him with a completely different bar.

 

i can't remember a player that his team got eliminated from UCL R16 and won Ballon d'or at the end , and for Copa America Suarez won it in Argentina with full attendance in 2011 and with much better quality of football than last tournament and didn't win ballon d'or , nor Sanchez or Vidal won it when they won Copa America in 2016 with full attendance also and with more teams and much better quality despite the face they were on fire also with their teams , neither Alisson or Fabinho in 2019 when they were champions of Europe , Copa America wasn't always a tournament that decides ballon d'or winner , it became of this importance this year just because Messi won it 

[kungshamra71 948]

6 hours ago, thepharoah said:

 

what did he do throughout the year , his team conceded 4 from Paris and 8 from Bayern in UCL last 2 seasons , he barely scored his 1st goal in ligue 1 on GW 12 , no la liga , are Copa del rey and Copa America enough for Ballon d'or ? i don't think so , if it's by trophies then no one deserve it more than Jorginho , if it's by stats and trophies also no one is better than Liwa , with all due respect to Messi but this's one of the biggest thefts in history of football and i really lost trust in this prize more than even in the past  

Completely agree with you.
 

This reminds me of that consolation prize for Best World Cup player they gave Messi when they were beaten in the final by the Germans, instead of giving it to the real best player that had been Robben.

 

But like I said, until Ronaldo and Messi are out I think these awards will continue to be a bit of joke, which is sad for the true best players like Lewandowski.