Ski Jumping Discussion | Qualification to Winter Olympic Games Milano Cortina 2026

[Pavlo 149]

16 hours ago, copravolley said:

You can't treat it as collective responsibility. Lindvik has already been punished, because he lost his silver medal on the large hill. In my opinion, the Austrians are cheating the most and they are now pretending to be saints. It's a good thing that Prevc from Slovenia won, rather than some Austrian after a dsq for Lindvik, which was probably what Austria was counting on.

Not exactly. Even in Norway it is being questioned in general. Like Finland 2. If they cheat on that scale they really do. No one believed us about their ski runners. Etc. Sure we cant punish all athletes in indivodual way but we can the "whole" Norwegian sport. If we can do it to Russia and Belarus (not even part of a war) the same rule affects anybody. And maybe our voice will be heard in many aspects more... finaly. 

[copravolley 565]

4 minutes ago, Pavlo said:

Not exactly. Even in Norway it is being questioned in general. Like Finland 2. If they cheat on that scale they really do. No one believed us about their ski runners. Etc. Sure we cant punish all athletes in indivodual way but we can the "whole" Norwegian sport. If we can do it to Russia and Belarus (not even part of a war) the same rule affects anybody. And maybe our voice will be heard in many aspects more... finaly. 

I'm interested in Slovenia, because it's clear that the big three: Austria, Germany and Norway are in an arms race. It's also clear that Poland and Japan have fallen behind. For now, it looks like Slovenia is taking advantage of this war of the big three and is able to win something for itself. The question is: Is Prevc honest, since at the beginning of the season he had trouble advancing to the top 30?

Edited March 12, 2025 by copravolley

[Pavlo 149]

45 minutes ago, copravolley said:

I'm interested in Slovenia, because it's clear that the big three: Austria, Germany and Norway are in an arms race. It's also clear that Poland and Japan have fallen behind. For now, it looks like Slovenia is taking advantage of this war of the big three and is able to win something for itself. The question is: Is Prevc honest, since at the beginning of the season he had trouble advancing to the top 30?

We never know that. Were we clear? Anybody? But without confirmation everybody is clear. Norway is not and now we know it but as for them there were really many clues...if one wanted to see them. More than anybody. West still tries to cover west. Sad but true. Now the question is how to punish them. Painfuly, yes. On the same basis as anyone. If they could compete why not Russians? As to Poland. Oh heck, we have fallen into some deep difficult to describe internal problems, to undestand too, but we are doing it in every sphere of life by our own will so nobody bothers. In fact i would say that we don't have sport in Poland (i mean even basis of any system) but this is morę complicated. 

[copravolley 565]

53 minutes ago, Pavlo said:

We never know that. Were we clear? Anybody? But without confirmation everybody is clear. Norway is not and now we know it but as for them there were really many clues...if one wanted to see them. More than anybody. West still tries to cover west. Sad but true. Now the question is how to punish them. Painfuly, yes. On the same basis as anyone. If they could compete why not Russians? As to Poland. Oh heck, we have fallen into some deep difficult to describe internal problems, to undestand too, but we are doing it in every sphere of life by our own will so nobody bothers. In fact i would say that we don't have sport in Poland (i mean even basis of any system) but this is morę complicated. 

The Russians had their ROC and competed until the war began and I'm sure they'll be back this year if peace is reached. I don't understand why Sundal or Granerud shouldn't start because Lindvik did something wrong... Especially since Lindvik has already been punished - he lost his silver medal in large hill. In the case of doping there are clear rules regarding disqualification but in the case of equipment you probably only get a disqualification for specific competitions, nothing more. Of course, FIS can create new rules for penalties, but the law is not retroactive...

Edited March 12, 2025 by copravolley

[Pavlo 149]

8 minutes ago, copravolley said:

The Russians had their ROC and competed until the war began and I'm sure they'll be back this year if peace is reached. I don't understand why Sundal or Granerud shouldn't start because Lindvik did something wrong... Especially since Lindvik has already been punished - he lost his silver medal in large hill. In the case of doping there are clear rules regarding disqualification but in the case of equipment you probably only get a disqualification for specific competitions, nothing more. Of course, FIS can create new rules for penalties, but the law is not retroactive...

Because they knew it all, they had to see it. If their whole system was a cheat they were conscious parts of this. So why some Russian athletes can pay the price of the whole system and Norwegian not. Sure, how to punish Norwegian sport is to discus but in general, like with Russia. With some small individual exclusions if proven that athlete is clear. I mean that we should use similar methods. If there is sexual harrasment in whole crew guys know it. Are they guilty? Imo yes. Just example. 

Edited March 12, 2025 by Pavlo

[copravolley 565]

33 minutes ago, Pavlo said:

Because they knew it all, they had to see it. If their whole system was a cheat they were conscious parts of this. So why some Russian athletes can pay the price of the whole system and Norwegian not. Sure, how to punish Norwegian sport is to discus but in general, like with Russia. With some small individual exclusions if proven that athlete is clear. I mean that we should use similar methods. If there is sexual harrasment in whole crew guys know it. Are they guilty? Imo yes. Just example. 

For now, it must be proven that the entire Norwegian staff, athletes etc. knew about it, and not, for example, 1-2 people. Then, appropriate penal regulations can be introduced, but they still will not be able to be retroactive. There is no such thing in the law that someone has to prove their innocence - it's exactly the opposite- it`s he who must be proven guilty.

Edited March 12, 2025 by copravolley

[Pavlo 149]

44 minutes ago, copravolley said:

For now, it must be proven that the entire Norwegian staff, athletes etc. knew about it, and not, for example, 1-2 people. Then, appropriate penal regulations can be introduced, but they still will not be able to be retroactive. There is no such thing in the law that someone has to prove their innocence - it's exactly the opposite- it`s he who must be proven guilty.

Sure, i assume that it was known. To be true how we can imagine the opposite? Fooling ourselves? Because they are Norwegian? Would we all be so cautious about Kenyans? And hey, in a way i think the same. How can you prove that every punished Russian athlete knew about the war? Supports it? What is the diffference? And what about Belarus athletes? For what they are punished? So if you cant prove anything to almost any Belarus athlete and we still punish them why not do it with rich ones 🙂. We have to decide wheather we punish all countries or only some. If not the whole country ok, whole nordic ski. How would it differ from Belarus punishment?🙂

[heywoodu 16,279]

11 hours ago, copravolley said:

Austria started this ski jumping arms race at the beginning of the 21 century, that continues to this day. I'm sure they bend the rules all the time, and when someone else does something similar, like Norway now, or Ammann in Vancouver 2010, they're the first to attack others. This video also came from them - they gave it to the polish journalist so as not to directly connect Austria with this action. I think this is not the end and there will be further actions and provocations, because Norway and the group of countries standing with it: the USA and Estonia will not forgive Austria for making this illegal video public.

Yes, ok, but what are the exact things Austria is supposed to be cheating with? We know what the Norwegians did, including video evidence, so what about the Austrians other than "but they do it too!"?

[heywoodu 16,279]

3 hours ago, Pavlo said:

If we can do it to Russia and Belarus (not even part of a war) the same rule affects anybody.

Both massive state-sponsored doping and the whole war thing are a bit of a different situation than this Norway ski jumping case, to be fair. I'm going to assume the Norwegian prime minister or king wasn't involved in these decisions.

[heywoodu 16,279]

1 hour ago, copravolley said:

The Russians had their ROC and competed until the war began and I'm sure they'll be back this year if peace is reached. I don't understand why Sundal or Granerud shouldn't start because Lindvik did something wrong... Especially since Lindvik has already been punished - he lost his silver medal in large hill. In the case of doping there are clear rules regarding disqualification but in the case of equipment you probably only get a disqualification for specific competitions, nothing more. Of course, FIS can create new rules for penalties, but the law is not retroactive...

This is definitely something that should be looked at. Doping enhances your performance, so does messing with equipment. Like in cross-country skiing: if your skis are positive for fluor, you get a DQ for that competition, but that's it (or you can even have them tested before the race and have no punishment at all, like two of the Brazilians in the Trondheim world championships having their skis test positive, likely due to using fluor in a race in January where it was announced there would not be a fluor test). If your urine tests positive for EPO, the problem is significantly bigger.